Sleeping in Acuvue Oasys on an Air Flight

ThaMaster · #1 (**permalink**) 01-15-2008, 03:29 PM

It says here that Acuvue Oasys contacts can be worn for 1-2 weeks. Does that include sleeping in them? I was thinking in particular about someone who does a lot of air travel. If they're on a long international red eye flight and they want to sleep in their contacts, would that be okay? Assuming that air traveler has healthy eyes and good-fitting contacts, would there be any long-term ill effects from sleeping in their Acuvue Oasys contacts about once a month or so?

OptixWizard · #2 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 12:13 PM

I'm not an eye health expert, but from what I understand, as long as your eyes are healthy and it's not a frequent habit, falling asleep on an air flight with your Oasys contacts in place probably isn't harmful.

ThaMaster · #3 (**permalink**) 10-12-2009, 12:25 PM

Thanks for you help, OptixWizard. Do we have any others that have something to say about this subject of flying with Acuvue Oasys contact lenses?

Cyan · #4 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 01:25 PM

In 2005, the FDA approved Acuvue Oasys for continuous wear of six nights/seven days. Sleeping in them on a red eye flight would be fine.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/35429.php

RedeyeJedi · #5 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyan

In 2005, the FDA approved Acuvue Oasys for continuous wear of six nights/seven days. Sleeping in them on a red eye flight would be fine.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/35429.php

That sounds good, Cyan. Thank you for your help.

ThaMaster · #6 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 05:57 PM

Here's the opening paragraph of that article.

"Vistakon, a division of Johnson & Johnson Vision Care, Inc., today announced that the U.S. Food & Drug Administration has granted an additional indication for Acuvue Oasys Brand Contact Lenses with Hydraclear Plus, approving the daily wear contact lens for up to six consecutive nights/seven days of extended wear."

rfriel · #7 (**permalink**) 01-07-2010, 03:19 PM

I find when i sleep in oasys lens, i wake up with a sticky, mushy feeling in my eyes and have to immediately re-wet the lens and sometimes, i have to take them out, rinse the lens off and re-insert, i wont sleep in oasys lens.

ruththomas · #8 (**permalink**) 01-07-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyan

In 2005, the FDA approved Acuvue Oasys for continuous wear of six nights/seven days. Sleeping in them on a red eye flight would be fine.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/35429.php

Thanks for the link, Cyan.

You know, at first I thought you said that Oasys was approved for six days and seven nights was approved by the FAA, as in the Federal Aviation Administration, not the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration. I thought "What's the FAA got to do with contact lenses?" I'm glad I checked the article.

ThaMaster · #9 (**permalink**) 02-11-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

Thanks for the link, Cyan.

You know, at first I thought you said that Oasys was approved for six days and seven nights was approved by the FAA, as in the Federal Aviation Administration, not the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration. I thought "What's the FAA got to do with contact lenses?" I'm glad I checked the article.

Way to go, ruththomas. I know I've come across some posts like that which need a double take before I get them right.

RedeyeJedi · #10 (**permalink**) 03-15-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

Thanks for the link, Cyan.

You know, at first I thought you said that Oasys was approved for six days and seven nights was approved by the FAA, as in the Federal Aviation Administration, not the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration. I thought "What's the FAA got to do with contact lenses?" I'm glad I checked the article.

Must have been the part about the flying that got you confused.

ruththomas · #11 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedeyeJedi

Must have been the part about the flying that got you confused.

Yeah, I forgot that the question was about wearing contacts on a long flight. Let that be a lesson you you children. Don't comment about a posting until after you scroll up and read the whole thread.

rfriel · #12 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

Yeah, I forgot that the question was about wearing contacts on a long flight. Let that be a lesson you you children. Don't comment about a posting until after you scroll up and read the whole thread.

you be the DA MAN///11 ahahahahaha

ThaMaster · #13 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfriel

I find when i sleep in oasys lens, i wake up with a sticky, mushy feeling in my eyes and have to immediately re-wet the lens and sometimes, i have to take them out, rinse the lens off and re-insert, i wont sleep in oasys lens.

Sorry you had to find that out the hard way rfriel. Typically it's fine to sleep in Acuvue Oasys contact lenses, but as I'm learning over and over on this site, everyone's different.

RedeyeJedi · #14 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfriel

I find when i sleep in oasys lens, i wake up with a sticky, mushy feeling in my eyes and have to immediately re-wet the lens and sometimes, i have to take them out, rinse the lens off and re-insert, i wont sleep in oasys lens.

Sometimes I wake up with a sticky, mushy feeling in my eyes when I'm not sleeping in contact lenses at all.

ThaMaster · #15 (**permalink**) 06-30-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedeyeJedi

Sometimes I wake up with a sticky, mushy feeling in my eyes when I'm not sleeping in contact lenses at all.

I guess you probably would not make a good candidate for overnight Oasys wear, them would you . . . Red Eye Jedi?

ruththomas · #16 (**permalink**) 07-20-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaMaster

It says here that Acuvue Oasys contacts can be worn for 1-2 weeks. Does that include sleeping in them?

The standard answer is that you can wear these contact lenses for one week if you wear them day and night, and two weeks if you take them out at night.

ThaMaster · #17 (**permalink**) 08-18-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

The standard answer is that you can wear these contact lenses for one week if you wear them day and night, and two weeks if you take them out at night.

I'll take a standard answer ruththomas. Thank you.

Contact Lens Fitter · #18 (**permalink**) 08-21-2010, 11:27 PM

You CAN wear the same socks and underwear for a continuous week a time, but do you really think it's a good idea??? Dust, dirt, pollen, and whatever else is in the air will stick to your contacts. The incidence of bad things happening is 20x-25x higher in people who wear their lenses on a continuous overnight schedule than daily wear schedules. This you can check with any contact lens manufactures.

Mondas2 · #19 (**permalink**) 08-23-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

You CAN wear the same socks and underwear for a continuous week a time, but do you really think it's a good idea??? Dust, dirt, pollen, and whatever else is in the air will stick to your contacts. The incidence of bad things happening is 20x-25x higher in people who wear their lenses on a continuous overnight schedule than daily wear schedules. This you can check with any contact lens manufactures.

If wearing the same pair of Acuvue Oasys contact lenses continuously for a week is a bad idea, how come it's become the "standard answer" even from the manufactures themselves?

"Remove and clean daily; replace every two weeks OR wear continuously up to six nights then replace with a fresh pair."

http://www.acuvue.com/products-acuvue-oasys.htm#

Contact Lens Fitter · #20 (**permalink**) 08-23-2010, 05:54 PM

I hope you don't believe everything you read. For one thing, if I believed every contact lens salesperson who came through my door, I would fit only their product and nothing else, AND they have all the charts and studies to prove it. Second, they also say,"to be worn as recommended by your eye-care professional'.Some patients cannot wear Oasys for an hour, some can only wear them for 8-10 hours, some for 16 hours, and many can't wear them overnight at all without serious problems, and a few can wear then for a week even though the incidence of serious problems is substantially higher than daily wear users. What catagory do you fall into, and how do you know? The only people I know of saying these are the 'standard' are J&J sales reps. As an eye-care professional, based on the experience of my patients, I can think of a few lenses I would recommend if overnight use was required, including RGP, before Oasys. Back in the 1980's, a soft lens had a dk of about 16-18, and someone brought a new lens onto the market with a HUGE dk of 31. It was used by some doctors and contact lens fitters as a '30 day' lens, but today we wouldn't dream of letting someone sleep overnight in one.What may appear to be a great idea may not turn out so well

Wookiee74 · #21 (**permalink**) 08-25-2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

I hope you don't believe everything you read. For one thing, if I believed every contact lens salesperson who came through my door, I would fit only their product and nothing else, AND they have all the charts and studies to prove it. Second, they also say,"to be worn as recommended by your eye-care professional'.Some patients cannot wear Oasys for an hour, some can only wear them for 8-10 hours, some for 16 hours, and many can't wear them overnight at all without serious problems, and a few can wear then for a week even though the incidence of serious problems is substantially higher than daily wear users. What catagory do you fall into, and how do you know? The only people I know of saying these are the 'standard' are J&J sales reps. As an eye-care professional, based on the experience of my patients, I can think of a few lenses I would recommend if overnight use was required, including RGP, before Oasys. Back in the 1980's, a soft lens had a dk of about 16-18, and someone brought a new lens onto the market with a HUGE dk of 31. It was used by some doctors and contact lens fitters as a '30 day' lens, but today we wouldn't dream of letting someone sleep overnight in one.What may appear to be a great idea may not turn out so well

I agree that every person is different, but Mondas2 quoted from Acuvue.com, not a sales rep. I believe that if you want to know how long you in particular can wear a given brand of contact lenses, the best person to tell you that would be the eye doctor that prescribes them to you.
For general information though, without having to make an appointment, I would go to the manufacturer's website. In other words, if I want to know how long I can reasonably expect to wear Acuvue Oasys contacts, I'd check the website. Then I'd go see my eye care professional to get fitted and then ask him or her how long I could wear them. In most cases they will tell me the same thing, won't they?

Contact Lens Fitter · #22 (**permalink**) 08-25-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookiee74

I agree that every person is different, but Mondas2 quoted from Acuvue.com, not a sales rep. I believe that if you want to know how long you in particular can wear a given brand of contact lenses, the best person to tell you that would be the eye doctor that prescribes them to you.
For general information though, without having to make an appointment, I would go to the manufacturer's website. In other words, if I want to know how long I can reasonably expect to wear Acuvue Oasys contacts, I'd check the website. Then I'd go see my eye care professional to get fitted and then ask him or her how long I could wear them. In most cases they will tell me the same thing, won't they?

In some cases they will tell what you want to hear in order to make a sale. In my +25 years of fitting contact lenses, I have seen far too many people need corneal transplants and in some cases lose the vision in an eye from 'continuous wear' lenses. It may be only 1 in 10,000, but if you're that one, the odds don't make you feel better.

autumn_leaf · #23 (**permalink**) 08-25-2010, 10:24 PM

everyone is very different. i was on a camping trip in Maine recently and one of my friends had oasys in for 3 days and nights without ever taking them out. i didn't get contacts until after the trip, but knew that that was dangerous. maybe it was fine for him, but wearing contacts now i can only stand to wear them for 4-6 hrs usually before i notice them drying out. if i had slept in them they probably would have been stuck to my eyes when i woke up.

John Barlygreen · #24 (**permalink**) 08-26-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn_leaf

everyone is very different. i was on a camping trip in Maine recently and one of my friends had oasys in for 3 days and nights without ever taking them out. i didn't get contacts until after the trip, but knew that that was dangerous. maybe it was fine for him, but wearing contacts now i can only stand to wear them for 4-6 hrs usually before i notice them drying out. if i had slept in them they probably would have been stuck to my eyes when i woke up.

That's the thing about contact lenses. Like many other things, people differ in their needs. Some people can get by with a couple of hours of sleep a night, while some people can function with less than ten hours of sleep.

I suppose there are certain individuals who can wear a given brand of contact lenses day and night for a week, while someone else can wear the same brand, but can't sleep in them at all.

By the way, Acuvue Oasys is a 1-2 week lens, which you can leave in for seven days and six nights, so your friend's 3 days and 3 nights doesn't surprise me, really.

ruththomas · #25 (**permalink**) 09-02-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

In some cases they will tell what you want to hear in order to make a sale. In my +25 years of fitting contact lenses, I have seen far too many people need corneal transplants and in some cases lose the vision in an eye from 'continuous wear' lenses. It may be only 1 in 10,000, but if you're that one, the odds don't make you feel better.

I'd say 1 in 10,000 are pretty good odds. I figure if I wore Acuvue Oasys contacts to bed every night, with those odds I could get away with it for over twenty five years. (10,000 nights divided by 365 days in a year = 27.4.)

Would you care to tell us what the odds actually are? For a person following the manufacturer's instructions and wearing a pair of Acuvue Oasys contact for seven days and six nights and cleaning them properly, what are the chances of a normal, healthy person sustaining such severe eye damage that a corneal transplant is necessary?

While you crunch your numbers, let me respectfully say that I think you may be coming off as a bit over cautious. Is wearing a pair of Acuvue Oasys contact lenses for seven days and six nights 100% safe? Can I guarantee that no one who follows this schedule will ever have eye problems?

No, of course not. Is it reasonably safe? Safe enough that I will likely switch to something new and revolutionary in the next 25 years before any severe damage is done? Yeah, I think so.

RedeyeJedi · #26 (**permalink**) 10-13-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

I'd say 1 in 10,000 are pretty good odds. I figure if I wore Acuvue Oasys contacts to bed every night, with those odds I could get away with it for over twenty five years. (10,000 nights divided by 365 days in a year = 27.4.)

Wow. That means it's been about 10,000 days since Return of the Jedi was released. I was just posting about that:

http://www.lens101.com/focus-dailies-progressives/15441-buying-focus-dailies-progressives-out-big-box.html

Contact Lens Fitter · #27 (**permalink**) 10-13-2010, 04:21 PM

your cornea, your call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

I'd say 1 in 10,000 are pretty good odds. I figure if I wore Acuvue Oasys contacts to bed every night, with those odds I could get away with it for over twenty five years. (10,000 nights divided by 365 days in a year = 27.4.)

Would you care to tell us what the odds actually are? For a person following the manufacturer's instructions and wearing a pair of Acuvue Oasys contact for seven days and six nights and cleaning them properly, what are the chances of a normal, healthy person sustaining such severe eye damage that a corneal transplant is necessary?

While you crunch your numbers, let me respectfully say that I think you may be coming off as a bit over cautious. Is wearing a pair of Acuvue Oasys contact lenses for seven days and six nights 100% safe? Can I guarantee that no one who follows this schedule will ever have eye problems?

No, of course not. Is it reasonably safe? Safe enough that I will likely switch to something new and revolutionary in the next 25 years before any severe damage is done? Yeah, I think so.

Kyleden · #28 (**permalink**) 10-13-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

your cornea, your call.

That 1 in 10,000 thing is just a guess. So far no one has been able to come up with the actual likelihood that a normal, healthy person with good contact lens habits will sustain corneal damage from wearing Acuvue Oasys as directed. I don't need an exact number like 1 in 10, 374 or something. 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 7,500 is close enough for me, and probably close enough for most people reading this forum.

Knotlob · #29 (**permalink**) 10-13-2010, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyleden

That 1 in 10,000 thing is just a guess. So far no one has been able to come up with the actual likelihood that a normal, healthy person with good contact lens habits will sustain corneal damage from wearing Acuvue Oasys as directed. I don't need an exact number like 1 in 10, 374 or something. 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 7,500 is close enough for me, and probably close enough for most people reading this forum.

This topic was discussed again last week and another contact lens professional (Robbill) warned of the dangers to corneal health through Extended Wear. In fact the recent studies have determined that the risk of corneal infections/ulceration is even higher than previously thought. Remember that Extended Wear for contact lenses is a relatively recent phenomenon and now a more complete database of wearer problems is beginning to be developed.

Have a look at his post #31:
http://www.lens101.com/1-day-acuvue/4432-sleeping-1-day-acuvue-contact-lens.html#post160202

and post #19:
http://www.lens101.com/general-eye-health/3999-what-happens-if-you-accidentally-sleep-your-contacts.html#post160206

Here is a quote from emedicine:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/798100-overview

"United States

Approximately 25,000 Americans develop infectious keratitis annually. The annual incidence of microbial keratitis associated with contact lens use is approximately 2-4 infections per 10,000 users of soft contact lenses and 10-20 infections per 10,000 users of extended-wear contact lenses. Approximately 10% of these infections result in the loss of 2 or more lines of visual acuity."

So for Extended Wear, the risk is about 1-2 in only 1000 wearers. Yes, you can wear extended wear lenses, but why take an unnecessary risk with your precious eyes just for the sake of saving 2-3 minutes in the evening and morning taking out and cleaning your lenses?

knotlob

Kyleden · #30 (**permalink**) 10-13-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

This topic was discussed again last week and another contact lens professional (Robbill) warned of the dangers to corneal health through Extended Wear. In fact the recent studies have determined that the risk of corneal infections/ulceration is even higher than previously thought. Remember that Extended Wear for contact lenses is a relatively recent phenomenon and now a more complete database of wearer problems is beginning to be developed.

Have a look at his post #31:
http://www.lens101.com/1-day-acuvue/4432-sleeping-1-day-acuvue-contact-lens.html#post160202

and post #19:
http://www.lens101.com/general-eye-health/3999-what-happens-if-you-accidentally-sleep-your-contacts.html#post160206

Here is a quote from emedicine:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/798100-overview

"United States

Approximately 25,000 Americans develop infectious keratitis annually. The annual incidence of microbial keratitis associated with contact lens use is approximately 2-4 infections per 10,000 users of soft contact lenses and 10-20 infections per 10,000 users of extended-wear contact lenses. Approximately 10% of these infections result in the loss of 2 or more lines of visual acuity."

So for Extended Wear, the risk is about 1-2 in only 1000 wearers. Yes, you can wear extended wear lenses, but why take an unnecessary risk with your precious eyes just for the sake of saving 2-3 minutes in the evening and morning taking out and cleaning your lenses?

knotlob

Thank you for the real numbers, knotlob. Your final point is a very good one. I suppose practicing taking your contacts out every night is good for the contact lens wearer and they will probably catch on fairly quickly.

Do you suppose that if eye doctors start telling their patients to remove and clean their contact lenses each night it will decrease the sales of said contacts? "If I have to take my contacts out every night, I might as well wear my glasses"?

That's what we really need to know at Lens.com, right?

Knotlob · #31 (**permalink**) 10-13-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyleden

Thank you for the real numbers, knotlob. Your final point is a very good one. I suppose practicing taking your contacts out every night is good for the contact lens wearer and they will probably catch on fairly quickly.

Do you suppose that if eye doctors start telling their patients to remove and clean their contact lenses each night it will decrease the sales of said contacts? "If I have to take my contacts out every night, I might as well wear my glasses"?

That's what we really need to know at Lens.com, right?

Personally I wear contact lenses because they offer a number of advantages (for me) over spectacles. Namely, sports, zero distortion compared to sometimes severe distortion with glasses, no annoyance in rain or snow with glasses getting clouded up, no misting up when coming from cold into a warm humid room, no discomfort when wearing a helmet (skiing, cycling, motor biking, etc.) better peripheral vision, aesthetics. These advantages outweigh the handling issues with contact lenses.

As regards Extended Wear, I used to wear Biofinity lenses. These are Extended Wear also, but I would never dream of wearing them in that mode. I now wear Menicon Z alpha RGP lenses with very high Dk and which, are also one of the very few certified as Extended Wear lenses. But again I wouldn't think of wearing these in Extended Wear mode either.

So, even if doctors stopped prescribing lenses to be worn in Extended Wear mode, I don't think it would make any difference to the use of contact lenses.

knotlob

Curlupndye · #32 (**permalink**) 10-14-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

Personally I wear contact lenses because they offer a number of advantages (for me) over spectacles. Namely, sports, zero distortion compared to sometimes severe distortion with glasses, no annoyance in rain or snow with glasses getting clouded up, no misting up when coming from cold into a warm humid room, no discomfort when wearing a helmet (skiing, cycling, motor biking, etc.) better peripheral vision, aesthetics. These advantages outweigh the handling issues with contact lenses.

knotlob

Thanks for listing those good reasons why contacts ate better than glasses.

Contact Lens Fitter · #33 (**permalink**) 10-14-2010, 01:49 PM

I would say the magic number is "1". All it takes is one bacterial infection to penetrate the surface of the cornea and you can lose an eye.

UNIT · #34 (**permalink**) 10-14-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

I would say the magic number is "1". All it takes is one bacterial infection to penetrate the surface of the cornea and you can lose an eye.

Are you saying that people should stop wearing contact lenses because it's too dangerous? Sure, you can lose an eye from one bacterial infection, but you can also get killed in one car crash. We still drive though.

Knotlob · #35 (**permalink**) 10-14-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIT

Are you saying that people should stop wearing contact lenses because it's too dangerous? Sure, you can lose an eye from one bacterial infection, but you can also get killed in one car crash. We still drive though.

It's going to depend on your priorities.

I can live quite happily taking my lenses out at night. I don't need them when I am asleep and I am not concerned about the cleaning time in the evening or morning. The risk of infection through wearing lenses 24/7 doesn't give me a buzz like for instance rock climbing, etc.

Driving is arguably a necessary evil. Yes, you can use public transport (if it is available) but even in cities, you may have to wait for public transport outsider the peak travel times. Also public transport isn't usually very regular in out of the way areas and there may be big supermarkets there with good parking but little public transport.

Some people seek risk of course. Joining the military or doing some extreme sport like sky diving, rock climbing, scuba, etc.

knotlob

Contact Lens Fitter · #36 (**permalink**) 10-14-2010, 10:18 PM

So you're saying, with your years of training and thousands of eyes fit for all types of contact lenses, you haven't seen any bad results from wearing contacts overnight ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIT

Are you saying that people should stop wearing contact lenses because it's too dangerous? Sure, you can lose an eye from one bacterial infection, but you can also get killed in one car crash. We still drive though.

Mondas2 · #37 (**permalink**) 10-15-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

So you're saying, with your years of training and thousands of eyes fit for all types of contact lenses, you haven't seen any bad results from wearing contacts overnight ?

Are you asking UNIT this question? I didn't notice him or her saying anything about "years of training and thousands of eyes fit for all types of contact lenses."

Me, personally, I don't believe that "1-2 in only 1000" is that big of a risk. I wonder if those 2 in 1000 people who developed microbial keratitis in the study carefully cleaned their contacts as directed by their eye doctors?

Nothing is risk free. So I would conclude the matter by saying that sleeping in extended wear contact lenses does carry a risk, but it's not a very high risk. Especially since I would only have a maximum of six opportunities to sleep in a given pair of Acuvue Oasys contacts lenses.

If I had 500 lottery tickets laid out in front of me, one of them a million dollar winner, and I was asked to choose only six tickets, I don't think I would quit my job before choosing my tickets.

Knotlob · #38 (**permalink**) 10-15-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondas2

Are you asking UNIT this question? I didn't notice him or her saying anything about "years of training and thousands of eyes fit for all types of contact lenses."

Me, personally, I don't believe that "1-2 in only 1000" is that big of a risk. I wonder if those 2 in 1000 people who developed microbial keratitis in the study carefully cleaned their contacts as directed by their eye doctors?

Nothing is risk free. So I would conclude the matter by saying that sleeping in extended wear contact lenses does carry a risk, but it's not a very high risk. Especially since I would only have a maximum of six opportunities to sleep in a given pair of Acuvue Oasys contacts lenses.

If I had 500 lottery tickets laid out in front of me, one of them a million dollar winner, and I was asked to choose only six tickets, I don't think I would quit my job before choosing my tickets.

Respectfully, I think your missing the point as others have also done. The risk of corneal infections increases the longer you wear the contact lenses 24 hours/day. It doesn't magically reset itself to zero when you put a fresh pair of contacts in after 168 hours of wear or two weeks wear, etc. That doesn't give the cornea any time to repair any damage to itself. Contact lenses do cause some damage to the epithelial layer of the cornea and at these sites of damage, bacterial infections can enter and start the ulceration process.

If you take the lenses out at night, you're giving your eyes a chance to recover before you put them in the next morning.

Maybe you think the odds are pretty good at 2 in 1000, but if you are one of the two in that 1000 sample of contact lens wearers, the odds suddenly don't look so good. If you are unfortunate enough to suffer ulcers in the centre of your cornea, you will have permanent degradation to your eye sight through scarring. It may be so severe that your have to wait around for a dead person to donate one of their corneas to help you see again. Is the convenience of not cleaning the lenses every night really worth that?

knotlob

Goldar · #39 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

Respectfully, I think your missing the point as others have also done. The risk of corneal infections increases the longer you wear the contact lenses 24 hours/day. It doesn't magically reset itself to zero when you put a fresh pair of contacts in after 168 hours of wear or two weeks wear, etc. That doesn't give the cornea any time to repair any damage to itself. Contact lenses do cause some damage to the epithelial layer of the cornea and at these sites of damage, bacterial infections can enter and start the ulceration process.

If you take the lenses out at night, you're giving your eyes a chance to recover before you put them in the next morning.

Maybe you think the odds are pretty good at 2 in 1000, but if you are one of the two in that 1000 sample of contact lens wearers, the odds suddenly don't look so good. If you are unfortunate enough to suffer ulcers in the centre of your cornea, you will have permanent degradation to your eye sight through scarring. It may be so severe that your have to wait around for a dead person to donate one of their corneas to help you see again. Is the convenience of not cleaning the lenses every night really worth that?

knotlob

So that's over the patient's lifetime, not the lifetime of the contact lens, correct? So even if a person slept in their contact lenses every night and changed them to a brand new pair each morning, he or she will still have a 2 in 10,000 (or 1 in 5,000) chance of developing microbial keratitis over the course of their lives?

Knotlob · #40 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldar

So that's over the patient's lifetime, not the lifetime of the contact lens, correct? So even if a person slept in their contact lenses every night and changed them to a brand new pair each morning, he or she will still have a 2 in 10,000 (or 1 in 5,000) chance of developing microbial keratitis over the course of their lives?

Technically yes, but there are a couple of points to bear in mind also.

If you were a contact lens wearer who developed vision damaging ulcers in your eye because of wearing contact lenses, would you be so keen to continue wearing contact lenses after the ulceration had been treated?

Extended wear is a relatively new option. So people who have been wearing extended wear lenses 24/7 for one week or even one month, with their eye care professionals tacit agreement, will probably have only been doing this for 3-5 years (not really a lifetime is it)? The database of user ulceration problems directly attributable to the wearing of contact lenses in extended wear mode is limited, but growing. This is presumably why the risks have apparently been revised upwards recently.

knotlob

UNIT · #41 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

Technically yes, but there are a couple of points to bear in mind also.

If you were a contact lens wearer who developed vision damaging ulcers in your eye because of wearing contact lenses, would you be so keen to continue wearing contact lenses after the ulceration had been treated?

Extended wear is a relatively new option. So people who have been wearing extended wear lenses 24/7 for one week or even one month, with their eye care professionals tacit agreement, will probably have only been doing this for 3-5 years (not really a lifetime is it)? The database of user ulceration problems directly attributable to the wearing of contact lenses in extended wear mode is limited, but growing. This is presumably why the risks have apparently been revised upwards recently.

knotlob

With a 1 in 500 chance of developing keratitis or a corneal ulcer, (Is either consequence equally likely?) one would have to wear contacts every night for over a year before such an ulcer would form, right?

Now suppose an extended contact lens wearer skipped a night? Or three nights, or seven? Would the odds then "magically reset to zero?" Would it be a reasonable plan maybe for someone to only sleep in their contacts on weeknights when they have to get up early for work the next morning and would like to save time?

Knotlob · #42 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIT

With a 1 in 500 chance of developing keratitis or a corneal ulcer, (Is either consequence equally likely?) one would have to wear contacts every night for over a year before such an ulcer would form, right?

Now suppose an extended contact lens wearer skipped a night? Or three nights, or seven? Would the odds then "magically reset to zero?" Would it be a reasonable plan maybe for someone to only sleep in their contacts on weeknights when they have to get up early for work the next morning and would like to save time?

Well I've been wearing contacts for about 35 years! I don't wear them at night - extended wear. I've been fortunate so far in not having many problems with contact lenses, though do have some ghost capillaries in my eyes.

The risk being quoted is an average risk. There are a number of factors, which seem to increase the risk for some people, including smoking. Males are also at higher risk than female wearers. Other factors including genetics are reported to have an influence. You could go 10 years without a problem then suddenly develop ulceration. It is not a precise calculation or prediction.

The best way to minimise risk is NOT to sleep in your contacts FULL STOP.

knotlob

AceofShades · #43 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

Well I've been wearing contacts for about 35 years! I don't wear them at night - extended wear. I've been fortunate so far in not having many problems with contact lenses, though do have some ghost capillaries in my eyes.

The risk being quoted is an average risk. There are a number of factors, which seem to increase the risk for some people, including smoking. Males are also at higher risk than female wearers. Other factors including genetics are reported to have an influence. You could go 10 years without a problem then suddenly develop ulceration. It is not a precise calculation or prediction.

The best way to minimise risk is NOT to sleep in your contacts FULL STOP.

knotlob

That's pretty clear. I can't help but wonder though, if there are sound reasons why people should never sleep with contact lenses under their eyelids, why are there so many lenses that are marketed as 1-2 week, monthly and even annual in the case of vial contact lenses? These companies aren't ignoring the risks just to make a dollar, are they? Shouldn't all contact lenses be marketed as daily disposable?

Knotlob · #44 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofShades

That's pretty clear. I can't help but wonder though, if there are sound reasons why people should never sleep with contact lenses under their eyelids, why are there so many lenses that are marketed as 1-2 week, monthly and even annual in the case of vial contact lenses? These companies aren't ignoring the risks just to make a dollar, are they? Shouldn't all contact lenses be marketed as daily disposable?

I haven't heard of vial lenses (annual lenses) being rated as Extended Wear. I used to wear 'Annual lenses' before they became 'Annual'. They were wear until they break or become uncomfortable or your prescription changes.

Don't confuse an annual lens, which is rated to last approximately a year but worn on a Daily Basis only, with an Extended Wear lens. i.e. you take the Daily Wear Annual lens out at night, disinfect/clean it and put it back into your eye the next day.

An extended wear lens is quite different. You put it in your eye, leave it there until 7 days/6 nights have passed, take it out and throw it away. Then you put a new lens in immediately and start again (in the case of a weekly extended wear lens). Four weeks in the case of a Monthly Extended Wear lens.

Lens manufacturers are there to make money, nothing else. Don't kid yourself there is any altruistic motive behind their sale of Extended Wear lenses.

There is a customer demand for lenses, which can be worn on an Extended Wear basis, so the lens manufacturer satisfies that demand. They know it is risky. Johnson & Johnson have a warning section on their website explaining this to contact lens wearers. They can always say - "we didn't tell you to wear our lenses on an Extended Wear basis - it was your decision and we told you that you must get approval to do so from your eye doctor".

There are parallels with cigarette smoking. Everybody knows and most accept that smoking is potentially hazardous (and certainly doesn't not bring health benefits). But the manufacturers produce cigarettes and smokers continue to buy them.

Not everybody needs to wear Daily Disposable lenses. For some people, a Two Weekly or a Monthly lens, or indeed a RGP lens worn on a Daily wear basis only, is fine. Others who have heavy protein deposits in their tears, cannot/will not clean their lenses daily, travel a lot, allergy sufferers, etc. will find Daily Disposable lenses superior.

knotlob

sexynerd · #45 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

Lens manufacturers are there to make money, nothing else. Don't kid yourself there is any altruistic motive behind their sale of Extended Wear lenses.

knotlob

That's probably true, but doesn't Acuvue fear the Big Bad Lawyers? If I get some kind of infection or corneal ulcer from wearing Acuvue Oasys lenses for seven days and nights, couldn't I sue Johnson & Johnson for misrepresentation? The Acuvue website says "Remove and clean daily; replace every two weeks OR wear continuously up to six nights then replace with a fresh pair. Ask your eye doctor which wearing schedule is right for you." If I wear them for seven days and six nights, I'm simply following manufacturers instructions, right?
Is that "ask your doctor" disclaimer a sufficient loophole? Are there any doctors out there telling their patients to wear their Acuvue Oasys lenses continuously up to six nights? Aren't doctors qualified to make that call?

Knotlob · #46 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexynerd

That's probably true, but doesn't Acuvue fear the Big Bad Lawyers? If I get some kind of infection or corneal ulcer from wearing Acuvue Oasys lenses for seven days and nights, couldn't I sue Johnson & Johnson for misrepresentation? The Acuvue website says "Remove and clean daily; replace every two weeks OR wear continuously up to six nights then replace with a fresh pair. Ask your eye doctor which wearing schedule is right for you." If I wear them for seven days and six nights, I'm simply following manufacturers instructions, right?
Is that "ask your doctor" disclaimer a sufficient loophole? Are there any doctors out there telling their patients to wear their Acuvue Oasys lenses continuously up to six nights? Aren't doctors qualified to make that call?

I'm neither an eye doctor nor a lawyer. I think the manufacturer would argue that they make the lenses which "for the right person" would be safe to wear on Extended Wear basis. Obviously they would argue that since they cannot personally examine individual patients eyes, the doctor must do that. Many doctors now will refuse to prescribe Extended Wear mode lens wear, except in very special circumstances.

Cigarette manufacturers have been successfully sued for probably millions of dollars, but still sell cigarettes. Now (in Europe at least) they must print a health warning on the cigarette packet, but that may or may not stop new lawsuits. People will probably try their hand at suing cigarette companies and say "how am I expected to know that I have to read the Health Warning on the cigarette packet?" and claim they still did not know about the risks.

Maybe they employ bean counters who like Ford did infamously, calculate that the profit or (in Ford's case) the cost of fixing a problem was too high and they would take the possible hit in the courts. That was the cheaper option.

knotlob

SandiStix · #47 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

I'm neither an eye doctor nor a lawyer. I think the manufacturer would argue that they make the lenses which "for the right person" would be safe to wear on Extended Wear basis. Obviously they would argue that since they cannot personally examine individual patients eyes, the doctor must do that. Many doctors now will refuse to prescribe Extended Wear mode lens wear, except in very special circumstances.

Cigarette manufacturers have been successfully sued for probably millions of dollars, but still sell cigarettes. Now (in Europe at least) they must print a health warning on the cigarette packet, but that may or may not stop new lawsuits. People will probably try their hand at suing cigarette companies and say "how am I expected to know that I have to read the Health Warning on the cigarette packet?" and claim they still did not know about the risks.

Maybe they employ bean counters who like Ford did infamously, calculate that the profit or (in Ford's case) the cost of fixing a problem was too high and they would take the possible hit in the courts. That was the cheaper option.

knotlob

This is a very interesting thread.
Just for the record, there are warning labels in cigarettes in the US.

Contact Lens Fitter · #48 (**permalink**) 10-18-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIT

With a 1 in 500 chance of developing keratitis or a corneal ulcer, (Is either consequence equally likely?) one would have to wear contacts every night for over a year before such an ulcer would form, right?

Now suppose an extended contact lens wearer skipped a night? Or three nights, or seven? Would the odds then "magically reset to zero?" Would it be a reasonable plan maybe for someone to only sleep in their contacts on weeknights when they have to get up early for work the next morning and would like to save time?

Saying you would have to sleep with contacts in for over a year before something would happen is not correct. It could happen the first night, or the third, or the tenth ..... . There is no way to know until it's too late.

Eyerobot · #49 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

Saying you would have to sleep with contacts in for over a year before something would happen is not correct. It could happen the first night, or the third, or the tenth ..... . There is no way to know until it's too late.

That's true. Just because there's a 1 in 500 chance of something happening, doesn't mean it won't happen until the 500th time. Good point.

Contact Lens Fitter · #50 (**permalink**) 10-19-2010, 05:02 PM

In order to understand the dangers of overnight wear, we must understand how the contact lens interacts with the eye.
In normal wear, the contact lens does not sit directly on the cornea. It floats on the tear film and moves up and down a fraction on every blink. I won't go into the all the reasons for this at this time, but it is important. Also, on every blink, the eyelids bring down a fresh layer of liquid to re-wet the cornea and contact lens. When sleeping, this interaction does not happen. Without lens movement and/or re-wetting, the contact lens will dehydrate and stick to the surface of the cornea (especially if alcohol is involved). If this happens, and you rub an eye in your sleep too hard, the lens will take patches of epithelial tissue off when it does move. And because the cornea has no blood vessels to bring anti-bodies etc. to the site, it is extremely easy to get a bacterial infection. Once an infection sets in, the eye can be lost with 24 to 48 hours.

Knotlob · #51 (**permalink**) 10-20-2010, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

In order to understand the dangers of overnight wear, we must understand how the contact lens interacts with the eye.
In normal wear, the contact lens does not sit directly on the cornea. It floats on the tear film and moves up and down a fraction on every blink. I won't go into the all the reasons for this at this time, but it is important. Also, on every blink, the eyelids bring down a fresh layer of liquid to re-wet the cornea and contact lens. When sleeping, this interaction does not happen. Without lens movement and/or re-wetting, the contact lens will dehydrate and stick to the surface of the cornea (especially if alcohol is involved). If this happens, and you rub an eye in your sleep too hard, the lens will take patches of epithelial tissue off when it does move. And because the cornea has no blood vessels to bring anti-bodies etc. to the site, it is extremely easy to get a bacterial infection. Once an infection sets in, the eye can be lost with 24 to 48 hours.

Hello ContactLensFitter

Thanks for explaining in more detail how damage occurs to the eyes during sleep while wearing contact lenses - very helpful.

Do people rub their eyes during sleep very often, or does it only occur because of discomfort, while wearing contact lenses?

Does that also mean that since RGP lenses generally contain zero moisture that they wouldn't dehydrate and also the RGP lens/cornea clearance is greater than for soft lenses, so would reduce the chances of sticking to the eye?

I'm not sure that anyone would want to wear RGP lenses overnight, even the Extended Wear ones, due to comfort considerations. I don't expect there to be a huge database of RGP lens overnight wear experience anyway?

I take it the alcohol exacerbates the problem because it is a diuretic and aids dehydration. Perhaps this also explains why some academic papers suggest males are more at risk of corneal ulceration than females because the a macho drink culture. However, in the last few years there have been reports that young girls are (binge) drinking more, so maybe this imbalance in ulceration vulnerability may even out?

knotlob

nakedeyes · #52 (**permalink**) 10-20-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

When sleeping, this interaction does not happen. Without lens movement and/or re-wetting, the contact lens will dehydrate and stick to the surface of the cornea (especially if alcohol is involved).

Thanks for the detailed report, Contact Lens Fitter. So do I take it that you are part of the Never Sleep in Your Contact Lenses, Ever camp?

On the dehydration issue, there's one thing I don't understand. How can your eyes dry out if your eyelids are closed? Wouldn't they keep the moisture in?

ruththomas · #53 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

In order to understand the dangers of overnight wear, we must understand how the contact lens interacts with the eye.
In normal wear, the contact lens does not sit directly on the cornea. It floats on the tear film and moves up and down a fraction on every blink. I won't go into the all the reasons for this at this time, but it is important. Also, on every blink, the eyelids bring down a fresh layer of liquid to re-wet the cornea and contact lens. When sleeping, this interaction does not happen. Without lens movement and/or re-wetting, the contact lens will dehydrate and stick to the surface of the cornea (especially if alcohol is involved). If this happens, and you rub an eye in your sleep too hard, the lens will take patches of epithelial tissue off when it does move. And because the cornea has no blood vessels to bring anti-bodies etc. to the site, it is extremely easy to get a bacterial infection. Once an infection sets in, the eye can be lost with 24 to 48 hours.

Thanks for explaining the problems associated with wearing contact lenses when you sleep. I have a couple of questions, now. First off, what if you don't rub your eyes in your sleep? I know it's difficult not to, but what if you just don't and your epithelial tissue remains intact? Are your eyes safe?
Secondly. "The eye can be lost with[in] 24-48 hours." Really? If I go to bed with my contacts in on Monday, I can be blind by Thursday? Isn't that a bit melodramatic?

Knotlob · #54 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruththomas

Thanks for explaining the problems associated with wearing contact lenses when you sleep. I have a couple of questions, now. First off, what if you don't rub your eyes in your sleep? I know it's difficult not to, but what if you just don't and your epithelial tissue remains intact? Are your eyes safe?
Secondly. "The eye can be lost with[in] 24-48 hours." Really? If I go to bed with my contacts in on Monday, I can be blind by Thursday? Isn't that a bit melodramatic?

I'll let ContactlensFitter more fully answer the question.

However, it is entirely possible for someone to loose their eyesight permanently with contact lenses within 24 hours, by using tap water to clean and insert their lenses, if the tap water is contaminated with the Acanthamoeba kerititis microbiological organism. This is especially if the lenses are worn 24/7 and the epithelial layer of the cornea is already damaged providing sites where the biological organism may enter the cornea.

knotlob

Adric · #55 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

I'll let ContactlensFitter more fully answer the question.

However, it is entirely possible for someone to loose their eyesight permanently with contact lenses within 24 hours, by using tap water to clean and insert their lenses, if the tap water is contaminated with the Acanthamoeba kerititis microbiological organism. This is especially if the lenses are worn 24/7 and the epithelial layer of the cornea is already damaged providing sites where the biological organism may enter the cornea.

knotlob

Is that a quotation, knotlob? I don't see any quotation marks and saying "however" at the beginning of a posting is confusing.

Knotlob · #56 (**permalink**) 10-21-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adric

Is that a quotation, knotlob? I don't see any quotation marks and saying "however" at the beginning of a posting is confusing.

No, it's not a quote. I was saying I would let ContactLensFitter answer the first question and add more detail to the second question, which I partly answered.

Maybe I should have continued the first sentence with "however ....", but the sentence then becomes too long and most readers will find it harder to read. Sorry for the confusion

.

knotlob

Deepurple · #57 (**permalink**) 10-22-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

No, it's not a quote. I was saying I would let ContactLensFitter answer the first question and add more detail to the second question, which I partly answered.

Maybe I should have continued the first sentence with "however ....", but the sentence then becomes too long and most readers will find it harder to read. Sorry for the confusion

.

knotlob

Oh, I get it. You said "I'll let ContactlensFitter more fully answer the question some time when he or she logs in. In the meantime, here is my contribution: It is entirely possible . . . "

Something like that?

Knotlob · #58 (**permalink**) 10-22-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepurple

Oh, I get it. You said "I'll let ContactlensFitter more fully answer the question some time when he or she logs in. In the meantime, here is my contribution: It is entirely possible . . . "

Something like that?

Yes, that's it in a nutshell

.

knotlob

SandiStix · #59 (**permalink**) 10-22-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

Maybe they employ bean counters who like Ford did infamously, calculate that the profit or (in Ford's case) the cost of fixing a problem was too high and they would take the possible hit in the courts. That was the cheaper option.

knotlob

Okay, I missed this the first time around.

So there was some kind of problem with Ford automobiles and the company decided that it would cost too much financially and legally to fix it, so they just left it alone? Is that what happened? You never mentioned their alternative to fixing the problem.

Knotlob · #60 (**permalink**) 10-22-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandiStix

Okay, I missed this the first time around.

So there was some kind of problem with Ford automobiles and the company decided that it would cost too much financially and legally to fix it, so they just left it alone? Is that what happened? You never mentioned their alternative to fixing the problem.

They didn't fix the problem.

It was many years ago and the car in question was a N American Pinto model. Basically I think there was a problem with the the filler cap & petrol/gas tank, which was particularly vulnerable in the event of a rear end auto accident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto

Ford did a non-emotional cost calculation and decided that rather than pay a shed load of money to recall all the cars and modify them, they would ignore the problem. If a few people were burnt to death following collisions, they reckoned it was cheaper to be sued and pay compensation in the courts, than to pay for the recall.

i.e. human tragedy had no value to their loyal customers. Fortunately it was all exposed and Ford took a beating as a result of this appalling attitude.

Extract from Wikipedia:

"Controversy followed the Pinto after 1977 allegations that the Pinto's structural design allowed its fuel tank filler neck to break off[9] and the fuel tank to be punctured in a rear-end collision,[9] resulting in deadly fires.
[edit] Allegations and lawsuits

Critics alleged that the vehicle's lack of reinforcing structure between the rear panel and the tank meant the tank would be pushed forward and punctured by the protruding bolts of the differential[15] — making the car less safe than its contemporaries.

According to a 1977 Mother Jones article, Ford allegedly was aware of the design flaw, refused to pay for a redesign and decided it would be cheaper to pay off possible lawsuits for resulting deaths. The magazine obtained a cost-benefit analysis it said Ford had used to compare the cost of an $11 repair against the monetary value of a human life — what became known as the Ford Pinto Memo.[16][13][17]

An example of a Pinto rear-end accident that led to a lawsuit was the 1972 accident that killed Lilly Gray and severely burned 13-year old Richard Grimshaw. The accident resulted in the court case Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Co.,[18] in which the California Court of Appeal for the Fourth Appellate District upheld compensatory damages of $2.5 million and punitive damages of $3.5 million against Ford, partially because Ford had been aware of the design defects before production but had decided against changing the design."

knotlob

SandiStix · #61 (**permalink**) 10-22-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

They didn't fix the problem.

It was many years ago and the car in question was a N American Pinto model. Basically I think there was a problem with the the filler cap & petrol/gas tank, which was particularly vulnerable in the event of a rear end auto accident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto

Ford did a non-emotional cost calculation and decided that rather than pay a shed load of money to recall all the cars and modify them, they would ignore the problem. If a few people were burnt to death following collisions, they reckoned it was cheaper to be sued and pay compensation in the courts, than to pay for the recall.

i.e. human tragedy had no value to their loyal customers. Fortunately it was all exposed and Ford took a beating as a result of this appalling attitude.

Extract from Wikipedia:

"Controversy followed the Pinto after 1977 allegations that the Pinto's structural design allowed its fuel tank filler neck to break off[9] and the fuel tank to be punctured in a rear-end collision,[9] resulting in deadly fires.
[edit] Allegations and lawsuits

Critics alleged that the vehicle's lack of reinforcing structure between the rear panel and the tank meant the tank would be pushed forward and punctured by the protruding bolts of the differential[15] — making the car less safe than its contemporaries.

According to a 1977 Mother Jones article, Ford allegedly was aware of the design flaw, refused to pay for a redesign and decided it would be cheaper to pay off possible lawsuits for resulting deaths. The magazine obtained a cost-benefit analysis it said Ford had used to compare the cost of an $11 repair against the monetary value of a human life — what became known as the Ford Pinto Memo.[16][13][17]

An example of a Pinto rear-end accident that led to a lawsuit was the 1972 accident that killed Lilly Gray and severely burned 13-year old Richard Grimshaw. The accident resulted in the court case Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Co.,[18] in which the California Court of Appeal for the Fourth Appellate District upheld compensatory damages of $2.5 million and punitive damages of $3.5 million against Ford, partially because Ford had been aware of the design defects before production but had decided against changing the design."

knotlob

So that one accident cost the company six million dollars and someone died but hey, it's still cheaper than a recall and redesign.
Now, what did the bad publicity cost them for this boneheaded move?

Post Script. This is the best picture I could find line of a Pinto blowing up as a result of a rear end collision. It's so big and easy to see, isn't it?

Knotlob · #62 (**permalink**) 10-22-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandiStix

So that one accident cost the company six million dollars and someone died but hey, it's still cheaper than a recall and redesign.
Now, what did the bad publicity cost them for this boneheaded move?

Post Script. This is the best picture I could find line of a Pinto blowing up as a result of a rear end collision. It's so big and easy to see, isn't it?

Yeap. Bean counting mentality at it's best.

knotlob

Contact Lens Fitter · #63 (**permalink**) 10-26-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotlob

I'll let ContactlensFitter more fully answer the question.

However, it is entirely possible for someone to loose their eyesight permanently with contact lenses within 24 hours, by using tap water to clean and insert their lenses, if the tap water is contaminated with the Acanthamoeba kerititis microbiological organism. This is especially if the lenses are worn 24/7 and the epithelial layer of the cornea is already damaged providing sites where the biological organism may enter the cornea.

knotlob

This is correct, but not everything. The contact lens is a foreign body placed in the eye and as such affects the entire metabolism of the eye. Some more so than others. If sleeping in lenses is unavoidable, instill 2 or 3 drops of re-wetting drops before sleep and again upon awakening.
For other possible conditions, see 'Efron Grading Scales'. Some conditions will occur and progress over time WITHOUT any effect on vision or comfort.

Tiger · #64 (**permalink**) 10-27-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contact Lens Fitter

This is correct, but not everything. The contact lens is a foreign body placed in the eye and as such affects the entire metabolism of the eye. Some more so than others. If sleeping in lenses is unavoidable, instill 2 or 3 drops of re-wetting drops before sleep and again upon awakening.
For other possible conditions, see 'Efron Grading Scales'. Some conditions will occur and progress over time WITHOUT any effect on vision or comfort.

So do you believe that contact lenses should only be slept in if there is no alternative, even if they're advertised to be worn continuously for seven days and six nights like Acuvue Oasys?

"Remove and clean daily; replace every two weeks OR wear continuously up to six nights then replace with a fresh pair. Ask your eye doctor which wearing schedule is right for you."

http://www.acuvue.com/products-acuvue-oasys.htm, "Lens Details" tab.

Contact Lens Fitter · #65 (**permalink**) 10-28-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger

So do you believe that contact lenses should only be slept in if there is no alternative, even if they're advertised to be worn continuously for seven days and six nights like Acuvue Oasys?

"Remove and clean daily; replace every two weeks OR wear continuously up to six nights then replace with a fresh pair. Ask your eye doctor which wearing schedule is right for you."

http://www.acuvue.com/products-acuvue-oasys.htm, "Lens Details" tab.

Overnight wearing long term contact lenses should be on late night TV along with," It slices, it dices, it shreds, it peels potato, it puts the cat out at night. Cuts through tin cans, leather shoes, bricks, solid steel bars and still cuts tomatoes so thin they only have one side." Do these products work? Kind of, sort of maybe .....

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