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  #1  
Old 09-20-2010, 05:23 PM
lens lens is offline
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Default Biofinity vs Proclear

Hello,

Nice forum, I have learned a lot recently reading around here and now I have a question to all of you I couldn't find an answer: It's there any advantage in using Biofinity instead of Proclear (comfort, health, etc.) if I'm not interested in extended wear?

I like a lot Proclear because it really helps to avoid the dry eye feeling under dry conditions like a/c but I don't know if there's any special reason why I should move to Biofinity.
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2010, 05:42 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Location: near Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lens View Post
Hello,

Nice forum, I have learned a lot recently reading around here and now I have a question to all of you I couldn't find an answer: It's there any advantage in using Biofinity instead of Proclear (comfort, health, etc.) if I'm not interested in extended wear?

I like a lot Proclear because it really helps to avoid the dry eye feeling under dry conditions like a/c but I don't know if there's any special reason why I should move to Biofinity.
Hello Lens and welcome to the forum.

The most obvious benefit in the Biofinity lenses is that they are a third generation silicone hydrogel lens (Comfilcon A), which has a very high oxygen permeability - usually expressed as Dk. The Dk value for Comfilcon A is 128.

In contrast the Proclear lenses are made of omafilcon A which is a hydrogel lens with a Dk value of 33, which is good for a hydrogel lens, but low compared to the silicone hydrogel material.

High oxygen permeability in the lens allows your cornea to receive more oxygen (it has no blood vessels and must draw it's oxygen from the surrounding air and the tear film). Impermeable or low Dk lenses make this more difficult.

I have worn the Biofinity lenses and found them exceptionally comfortable.

knotlob
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2010, 08:54 AM
ElaineKramer ElaineKramer is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lens View Post
Hello,

Nice forum, I have learned a lot recently reading around here and now I have a question to all of you I couldn't find an answer: It's there any advantage in using Biofinity instead of Proclear (comfort, health, etc.) if I'm not interested in extended wear?

I like a lot Proclear because it really helps to avoid the dry eye feeling under dry conditions like a/c but I don't know if there's any special reason why I should move to Biofinity.
Hi Lens. Welcome to Lens.com. I wonder why no one has chosen that screen name until now?

Like knotlob said, the high Dk value of Proclear lenses makes them very comfortable to wear all day.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2010, 10:51 AM
lens lens is offline
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Default

Thanks both for your answers.

The thing is I've been using Biofinity for over a month, I work everyday 8+ hours with a/c and the end of day comfort for Biofinity sometimes has been better and sometimes worst than Proclear (the best I used for dry conditions).

I already ordered some Aquify Long Lasting drops to see if it helps a little on those days that Biofinity gets dryer and I'm using right now Opti Free Replenish and it seems to help too, because before with Renu Fresh the lenses were getting more uncomfortable. I recently saw and read about the new Renu BioTrue and it looks interesting, maybe I'll try it after running out of my current solution; which one do you think should work better with this lenses?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineKramer View Post
Hi Lens. Welcome to Lens.com. I wonder why no one has chosen that screen name until now?
I thought the same when I tried it
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2010, 12:16 PM
Delta88 Delta88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lens View Post
Thanks both for your answers.

The thing is I've been using Biofinity for over a month, I work everyday 8+ hours with a/c and the end of day comfort for Biofinity sometimes has been better and sometimes worst than Proclear (the best I used for dry conditions).

I already ordered some Aquify Long Lasting drops to see if it helps a little on those days that Biofinity gets dryer and I'm using right now Opti Free Replenish and it seems to help too, because before with Renu Fresh the lenses were getting more uncomfortable. I recently saw and read about the new Renu BioTrue and it looks interesting, maybe I'll try it after running out of my current solution; which one do you think should work better with this lenses?




I thought the same when I tried it
Sorry, you thought what was the same when you tried it?
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:07 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta88 View Post
Sorry, you thought what was the same when you tried it?
That nobody had used the screen name "Lens" before on this forum (for Contact LENS wearers) .

knotlob
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:10 PM
AllyCat AllyCat is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
That nobody had used the screen name "Lens" before on this forum (for Contact LENS wearers) .

knotlob
Oh, right. I was a bit confused at first too. I find that it's usually best to restate the question when I answer it. Especially in a format such as this.
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2010, 12:02 PM
Delta88 Delta88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
I have worn the Biofinity lenses and found them exceptionally comfortable.

knotlob
"Exceptionally comfortable." You gotta love that!
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2010, 07:42 PM
leeam leeam is offline
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Hi guys, I'm new on this forum. Ffirst of all you have to excuse my poor english, I speak spanish.
I'm about to buy new lens, and two of those i'm interested in are PROCLEAR and BIOFINITY. The other one is Biomedics XC.
What do you think? I was using biomedics 55 evolution and I'm not confortable with them. They get dry really fast, even if i put some artificial tears in my eyes, they lasts less than half an hour.
i read that those 3 brands has more water so they last more time wet, but which of them are better?

The data of the one i was using is D-2.50 bc 8.6 dia 14.2.

THANKS!
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  #10  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:34 AM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeam View Post
Hi guys, I'm new on this forum. Ffirst of all you have to excuse my poor english, I speak spanish.
I'm about to buy new lens, and two of those i'm interested in are PROCLEAR and BIOFINITY. The other one is Biomedics XC.
What do you think? I was using biomedics 55 evolution and I'm not confortable with them. They get dry really fast, even if i put some artificial tears in my eyes, they lasts less than half an hour.
i read that those 3 brands has more water so they last more time wet, but which of them are better?

The data of the one i was using is D-2.50 bc 8.6 dia 14.2.

THANKS!
Hello Leeam & welcome to the forum. We need more European members here as the forum is dominated by our US Cousins on the other side of the pond .

Biomedics 55 (Ocufilcon D, Dk 19.7, H20 55%) - uncomfortable for you

Biomedic XC (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Proclear (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Biofinity (Comfilcon A, Dk 128, H2O 48%)

The first three lenses are rather old technology and have low Dk values. The Dk is the amount of oxygen that the lens material can pass through to the cornea of the eye and keep it health and well supplied with oxygen.

The Biofinity lens is a newer silicone hydrogel lens material called Comfilcon A and is about 4 times more oxygen permeable than the other three lenses.

Biofinity lenses (for me) are very comfortable, though they have a higher moisture content (48%) that most of the other silicone hydrogel lenses around at present.

Generally, the lower the moisture content of the lens material, the less will be the drying of the eye (by the lens loosing water by evaporation).

I would recommend you try the Biofinity lenses and see how you get on. If these don't work for you, try another silicone hydrogel lens with a lower moisture content.

Bye the way, when you ask a new question, it is better to start a new post under this Biofinity section, rather than add it onto an existing post (hijacking). That way, the forum is tidier and your question will be seen and hopefully answered quicker .

knotlob
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  #11  
Old 10-21-2010, 09:01 AM
ICU2 ICU2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Hello Leeam & welcome to the forum. We need more European members here as the forum is dominated by our US Cousins on the other side of the pond .

Biomedics 55 (Ocufilcon D, Dk 19.7, H20 55%) - uncomfortable for you

Biomedic XC (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Proclear (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Biofinity (Comfilcon A, Dk 128, H2O 48%)

The first three lenses are rather old technology and have low Dk values. The Dk is the amount of oxygen that the lens material can pass through to the cornea of the eye and keep it health and well supplied with oxygen.

The Biofinity lens is a newer silicone hydrogel lens material called Comfilcon A and is about 4 times more oxygen permeable than the other three lenses.

Biofinity lenses (for me) are very comfortable, though they have a higher moisture content (48%) that most of the other silicone hydrogel lenses around at present.

Generally, the lower the moisture content of the lens material, the less will be the drying of the eye (by the lens loosing water by evaporation).

I would recommend you try the Biofinity lenses and see how you get on. If these don't work for you, try another silicone hydrogel lens with a lower moisture content.

Bye the way, when you ask a new question, it is better to start a new post under this Biofinity section, rather than add it onto an existing post (hijacking). That way, the forum is tidier and your question will be seen and hopefully answered quicker .

knotlob
Thanks for spelling it out so clearly, Knotlob. I'm not actually shopping for contacts at this particular moment in time but if I were, this would be a very helpful guide.

Thanks for the "hijacking" information too. I've seen it happen once or twice here on Lens 101, but I didn't know there was a name for it.
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2010, 12:11 PM
leeam leeam is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Hello Leeam & welcome to the forum. We need more European members here as the forum is dominated by our US Cousins on the other side of the pond .

Biomedics 55 (Ocufilcon D, Dk 19.7, H20 55%) - uncomfortable for you

Biomedic XC (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Proclear (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Biofinity (Comfilcon A, Dk 128, H2O 48%)

The first three lenses are rather old technology and have low Dk values. The Dk is the amount of oxygen that the lens material can pass through to the cornea of the eye and keep it health and well supplied with oxygen.

The Biofinity lens is a newer silicone hydrogel lens material called Comfilcon A and is about 4 times more oxygen permeable than the other three lenses.

Biofinity lenses (for me) are very comfortable, though they have a higher moisture content (48%) that most of the other silicone hydrogel lenses around at present.

Generally, the lower the moisture content of the lens material, the less will be the drying of the eye (by the lens loosing water by evaporation).

I would recommend you try the Biofinity lenses and see how you get on. If these don't work for you, try another silicone hydrogel lens with a lower moisture content.

Bye the way, when you ask a new question, it is better to start a new post under this Biofinity section, rather than add it onto an existing post (hijacking). That way, the forum is tidier and your question will be seen and hopefully answered quicker .

knotlob
Hey thanks a lot for your answer!
Actually, we are scattered all around the world..
I'm from SouthAm, Argentina

Yes I know I should have started a new thread but I didn't know where, and I found this question that matched with my doubt and wasn't old.

Can you clarify me something about the water percentage and the DK?
higher DK is better and higher H2O% is better too? Which is "more important" ?
I mean I thought that the more H20%, the more time the lens will keep wet, am I wrong?
So if I have lens that are 55% and i turn into ones that have 48%, wouldn't they get dry faster?

At better DK, your eyes will "breath" better, but would it feel better for someone who doesn't have troubles with a lower DK as me? 'cause I don't think that the uncomfortable feeling is because of DK but because they just get dry so fast.

Thank you a lot!
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:00 PM
Superschwin Superschwin is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Hello Leeam & welcome to the forum. We need more European members here as the forum is dominated by our US Cousins on the other side of the pond .

Biomedics 55 (Ocufilcon D, Dk 19.7, H20 55%) - uncomfortable for you

Biomedic XC (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Proclear (Omafilcon A, Dk 33, H2O 59%)

Biofinity (Comfilcon A, Dk 128, H2O 48%)

The first three lenses are rather old technology and have low Dk values. The Dk is the amount of oxygen that the lens material can pass through to the cornea of the eye and keep it health and well supplied with oxygen.

The Biofinity lens is a newer silicone hydrogel lens material called Comfilcon A and is about 4 times more oxygen permeable than the other three lenses.

Biofinity lenses (for me) are very comfortable, though they have a higher moisture content (48%) that most of the other silicone hydrogel lenses around at present.

Generally, the lower the moisture content of the lens material, the less will be the drying of the eye (by the lens loosing water by evaporation).

I would recommend you try the Biofinity lenses and see how you get on. If these don't work for you, try another silicone hydrogel lens with a lower moisture content.

Bye the way, when you ask a new question, it is better to start a new post under this Biofinity section, rather than add it onto an existing post (hijacking). That way, the forum is tidier and your question will be seen and hopefully answered quicker .

knotlob
Listen to Knotlob. He's got almost two thousand posts on this forum and he really knows what he's talking about. Check back with us and let us know if you followed his suggestions and how it went, okay? Thanks.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:05 PM
lurker2010 lurker2010 is offline
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Posts: 367
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Do you have a good relationship with your eye practitioner? I'd ask for trial lenses for both biofinity and proclear. He might suggest putting one proclear in one eye and biofinity in the other.

Manufacturers are happy to supply trial lenses. Take advantage.

Knotlob is very knowledgeable but there is no substitute to seeing how the lenses feel/work in your eyes.
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2010, 03:47 PM
ruththomas ruththomas is offline
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Posts: 317
Default Biofinity or Proclear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lens View Post
Thanks both for your answers.

The thing is I've been using Biofinity for over a month, I work everyday 8+ hours with a/c and the end of day comfort for Biofinity sometimes has been better and sometimes worst than Proclear (the best I used for dry conditions).
How are you lens? Have you made a choice between Biofinity and Proclear?
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:50 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: near Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeam View Post
Hey thanks a lot for your answer!
Actually, we are scattered all around the world..
I'm from SouthAm, Argentina

Yes I know I should have started a new thread but I didn't know where, and I found this question that matched with my doubt and wasn't old.

Can you clarify me something about the water percentage and the DK?
higher DK is better and higher H2O% is better too? Which is "more important" ?
I mean I thought that the more H20%, the more time the lens will keep wet, am I wrong?
So if I have lens that are 55% and i turn into ones that have 48%, wouldn't they get dry faster?

At better DK, your eyes will "breath" better, but would it feel better for someone who doesn't have troubles with a lower DK as me? 'cause I don't think that the uncomfortable feeling is because of DK but because they just get dry so fast.

Thank you a lot!
Sure, happy to explain.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking broadly when you said you spoke Spanish. Anyway, your from Argentina (where they make some coloured contacts Waicon, I think).

Lurker2010 has made a very good suggestion. Your Eye Care Professional (ECP) will probably be inundated with packs of trial contact lenses from the manufacturers, so see if your ECP will trial you with some lenses - for free.

Anyway, I will try to clarify the water/Dk issue for you, as I understand it.

Before silicone hydrogel lenses were developed, contact lenses were made of HEMA hydrogel. With this material, the higher the water content, the more comfortable the lens was and also the higher the oxygen permeability. Oxygen moved through the lens using the water molecules in the gel.

Then came silicone hydrogel lenses. These offered much higher oxygen permeability with figures up to Dk 140 or so. HEMA hydrogel lenses are normally Dk 10-35 or so, but in theory could have a Dk of up to 80 maximum, I think. The oxygen transfer in silicone hydrogel lenses is via the silicone molecule in the gel. No water is needed for the oxygen transfer, though the lenses generally contain some water.

But, silicone is hydrophobic/water repelling, so a pure silicone gel lens would be very uncomfortable. Some manufacturers treat the surface of the lens with a plasma coating to add or convert the silicone to silicate, which is more water loving. Some manufacturers add wetting or conditioning agents to make the lens more comfortable/wettable/hydrophilic/water loving, but sometimes these chemicals cause adverse/allergic reactions in sensitive eyes.

RGP lenses don't contain any significant amounts of water and are often recommended for people with dry eyes. But they tend to be less comfortable for some wearers, though offering better vision.

One of the current theories is that a high water content lens will loose water from it's gel by evaporation to the surrounding atmosphere. Gels don't like loosing moisture, so will try to make up this water by drawing water from the eye. As a result, the eye feels dry and uncomfortable. So a lower water content lens is often better for people with dry eyes.

Biofinity lenses are a special case with higher water content for comfort, but probably not so prone to drying the eye. This is one lens you really should trial.

High Dk is not everything, but one of my eye doctors believed that the best (silicone hydrogel) lens materials are only just good enough for your eyes. If you insist on wearing an older HEMA hydrogel lens with low Dk, then you will need to be careful not to wear the lens too many hours/day, otherwise your cornea may become short of oxygen and neovascularisation may develop. This is the growing of capillaries/blood vessels into your cornea (which normally is without these and must be clear of these for good vision).

knotlob
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2010, 09:50 PM
leeam leeam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker2010 View Post
Do you have a good relationship with your eye practitioner? I'd ask for trial lenses for both biofinity and proclear. He might suggest putting one proclear in one eye and biofinity in the other.

Manufacturers are happy to supply trial lenses. Take advantage.

Knotlob is very knowledgeable but there is no substitute to seeing how the lenses feel/work in your eyes.
Its a good idea but Ive just answer better to my supplier and they don't sell Proclear for less than 10 Diopters (and i need -2.75). Instead, they sell BOMEDICS XC. I could try them, but don't think I'll keep them.
In this case, I'll go for a Biofinity, unless I find other supplier that sells Proclear for my need.

But if I am totally compatible with the biomedics55 evolution (that are the cheapest ones), shouldn't I feel obviously better a Biofinity lens?
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2010, 10:07 PM
leeam leeam is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Sure, happy to explain.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking broadly when you said you spoke Spanish. Anyway, your from Argentina (where they make some coloured contacts Waicon, I think).

Lurker2010 has made a very good suggestion. Your Eye Care Professional (ECP) will probably be inundated with packs of trial contact lenses from the manufacturers, so see if your ECP will trial you with some lenses - for free.

Anyway, I will try to clarify the water/Dk issue for you, as I understand it.

Before silicone hydrogel lenses were developed, contact lenses were made of HEMA hydrogel. With this material, the higher the water content, the more comfortable the lens was and also the higher the oxygen permeability. Oxygen moved through the lens using the water molecules in the gel.

Then came silicone hydrogel lenses. These offered much higher oxygen permeability with figures up to Dk 140 or so. HEMA hydrogel lenses are normally Dk 10-35 or so, but in theory could have a Dk of up to 80 maximum, I think. The oxygen transfer in silicone hydrogel lenses is via the silicone molecule in the gel. No water is needed for the oxygen transfer, though the lenses generally contain some water.

But, silicone is hydrophobic/water repelling, so a pure silicone gel lens would be very uncomfortable. Some manufacturers treat the surface of the lens with a plasma coating to add or convert the silicone to silicate, which is more water loving. Some manufacturers add wetting or conditioning agents to make the lens more comfortable/wettable/hydrophilic/water loving, but sometimes these chemicals cause adverse/allergic reactions in sensitive eyes.

RGP lenses don't contain any significant amounts of water and are often recommended for people with dry eyes. But they tend to be less comfortable for some wearers, though offering better vision.

One of the current theories is that a high water content lens will loose water from it's gel by evaporation to the surrounding atmosphere. Gels don't like loosing moisture, so will try to make up this water by drawing water from the eye. As a result, the eye feels dry and uncomfortable. So a lower water content lens is often better for people with dry eyes.

Biofinity lenses are a special case with higher water content for comfort, but probably not so prone to drying the eye. This is one lens you really should trial.

High Dk is not everything, but one of my eye doctors believed that the best (silicone hydrogel) lens materials are only just good enough for your eyes. If you insist on wearing an older HEMA hydrogel lens with low Dk, then you will need to be careful not to wear the lens too many hours/day, otherwise your cornea may become short of oxygen and neovascularisation may develop. This is the growing of capillaries/blood vessels into your cornea (which normally is without these and must be clear of these for good vision).

knotlob
Thank you knotlob! you made it so clear! (again haha)
Yes, here we have the Waicon Labs that makes contact lens. I used to buy them the NEW LENS by Waicon. Uncolored, just for myopia. And I don't know, I wanted to try CooperVision that is cheaper but "last the half of the time than new lens lasts". Idk if it's real or not, but thats what specifications says. So they sold me the Evolution 55, I used them a year (2 boxes, each pair lasted me 2 month..... recommended by the seller) , and now I want to try sth better. And I didn't find better lens by Waicon. So i'mg going for CV. By the way, the Biomedics gave me better view resolution than new lens did.

I wanna ask you sth, maybe you know about this. There is an issue suffered by myopics as me where, if youre seen a bright thing like a screen or a white wall, you can see some "black flies" or things floating in the air that I have read that it is normal because of the bad (short) focus of the eye, and what u re seeing is the veins inside the eye, or normal retinal detachment...
Might it have a relation with a bad oxygenation because of contact lens? Or the first thing you see in those cases are the red veins on the white of the eye?

thanks!
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2010, 02:47 AM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Location: near Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeam View Post
Thank you knotlob! you made it so clear! (again haha)
Yes, here we have the Waicon Labs that makes contact lens. I used to buy them the NEW LENS by Waicon. Uncolored, just for myopia. And I don't know, I wanted to try CooperVision that is cheaper but "last the half of the time than new lens lasts". Idk if it's real or not, but thats what specifications says. So they sold me the Evolution 55, I used them a year (2 boxes, each pair lasted me 2 month..... recommended by the seller) , and now I want to try sth better. And I didn't find better lens by Waicon. So i'mg going for CV. By the way, the Biomedics gave me better view resolution than new lens did.

I wanna ask you sth, maybe you know about this. There is an issue suffered by myopics as me where, if youre seen a bright thing like a screen or a white wall, you can see some "black flies" or things floating in the air that I have read that it is normal because of the bad (short) focus of the eye, and what u re seeing is the veins inside the eye, or normal retinal detachment...
Might it have a relation with a bad oxygenation because of contact lens? Or the first thing you see in those cases are the red veins on the white of the eye?

thanks!
Hello leeam

I think you will find the Biofinity very good, though they are quite thin for a Monthly lens and you need to handle them with care.

The 'black flies' you see sound like floaters in your eye. Some floaters are normal and you just learn to ignore them. But large, numerous or a sudden increase in floaters can indicate serious problems such as retinal detachment. I don't know if there is such a thing as normal retinal detachment.

I have some neovascularisation, which is no longer active. The blood vessels in the eye are empty and called ghost capillaries. Probably happened when I was wearing hard PMMA non oxygen permeable lenses many, many years ago. I don't think you can see neovascularisation yourself, but your eye care professional will see it during the annual eye care examination.

You should discuss the floaters with the eye care specialist to reassure yourself that everything is OK/normal.

knotlob
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2010, 09:30 AM
DebiK DebiK is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Sure, happy to explain.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking broadly when you said you spoke Spanish. Anyway, your from Argentina (where they make some coloured contacts Waicon, I think).

Lurker2010 has made a very good suggestion. Your Eye Care Professional (ECP) will probably be inundated with packs of trial contact lenses from the manufacturers, so see if your ECP will trial you with some lenses - for free.

Anyway, I will try to clarify the water/Dk issue for you, as I understand it.

Before silicone hydrogel lenses were developed, contact lenses were made of HEMA hydrogel. With this material, the higher the water content, the more comfortable the lens was and also the higher the oxygen permeability. Oxygen moved through the lens using the water molecules in the gel.

Then came silicone hydrogel lenses. These offered much higher oxygen permeability with figures up to Dk 140 or so. HEMA hydrogel lenses are normally Dk 10-35 or so, but in theory could have a Dk of up to 80 maximum, I think. The oxygen transfer in silicone hydrogel lenses is via the silicone molecule in the gel. No water is needed for the oxygen transfer, though the lenses generally contain some water.

But, silicone is hydrophobic/water repelling, so a pure silicone gel lens would be very uncomfortable. Some manufacturers treat the surface of the lens with a plasma coating to add or convert the silicone to silicate, which is more water loving. Some manufacturers add wetting or conditioning agents to make the lens more comfortable/wettable/hydrophilic/water loving, but sometimes these chemicals cause adverse/allergic reactions in sensitive eyes.

RGP lenses don't contain any significant amounts of water and are often recommended for people with dry eyes. But they tend to be less comfortable for some wearers, though offering better vision.

One of the current theories is that a high water content lens will loose water from it's gel by evaporation to the surrounding atmosphere. Gels don't like loosing moisture, so will try to make up this water by drawing water from the eye. As a result, the eye feels dry and uncomfortable. So a lower water content lens is often better for people with dry eyes.

Biofinity lenses are a special case with higher water content for comfort, but probably not so prone to drying the eye. This is one lens you really should trial.

High Dk is not everything, but one of my eye doctors believed that the best (silicone hydrogel) lens materials are only just good enough for your eyes. If you insist on wearing an older HEMA hydrogel lens with low Dk, then you will need to be careful not to wear the lens too many hours/day, otherwise your cornea may become short of oxygen and neovascularisation may develop. This is the growing of capillaries/blood vessels into your cornea (which normally is without these and must be clear of these for good vision).

knotlob
Wow. This is pretty much everything I ever want to know about soft contact lenses, with some facts about RGP lenses thrown in for good measure. If people want to know about contact lenses, they don't have to go anywhere else. Thanks knotlob, and thanks to leeam, who asked the question and set this thing in motion.
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2010, 04:32 PM
ElaineKramer ElaineKramer is offline
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I like a lot Proclear because it really helps to avoid the dry eye feeling under dry conditions like a/c but I don't know if there's any special reason why I should move to Biofinity.
Can someone explain to my why contact lenses dry out in air conditioned buildings?
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  #22  
Old 11-02-2010, 05:06 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Can someone explain to my why contact lenses dry out in air conditioned buildings?
I will have a go!

Air contains moisture. The maximum amount of moisture is can support increases with higher temperature. Large bodies of surrounding water will increase the amount of water that the air can hold for a given temperature. When that air has absorbed it's maximum water content, the air is said to have a Relative Humidity of 100%. In the summer time, you folks in the US often have to run air conditioning systems and these air conditioning systems not only cool the air but also tend to deliberately dehumidify/dry the air to some extent, so that the relative humidity of the air leaving the Air Con unit is lower than it would be outside.

The laws of chemistry or chemical engineering say that evaporation of water from the eye will be higher when the relative humidity of the ambient air is lower. So in Air Conditioned buildings with low Relative Humidity, there will be a greater tendency for evaporation of moisture from the contact lenses to the surrounding air. Contact lens gel materials don't like loosing moisture, so will draw moisture from your eyes, making your eyes dry and itchy.

By the same token, the air inside an aircraft in flight is drawn from outside and is circa -55 Deg C I think, so will contain hardly any moisture. When this air is heated before entry to the cabin, it could absorb a lot of moisture but probably isn't humidified sufficiently and so it's relative humidity is low and again the eyes become dry. I'm not sure why they don't increase the humidity inside the cabin. There must be a valid reason for that - passenger comfort, etc.

knotlob

Last edited by Knotlob; 11-22-2010 at 05:35 AM..
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:26 PM
leeam leeam is offline
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Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Hello leeam

I think you will find the Biofinity very good, though they are quite thin for a Monthly lens and you need to handle them with care.

The 'black flies' you see sound like floaters in your eye. Some floaters are normal and you just learn to ignore them. But large, numerous or a sudden increase in floaters can indicate serious problems such as retinal detachment. I don't know if there is such a thing as normal retinal detachment.

I have some neovascularisation, which is no longer active. The blood vessels in the eye are empty and called ghost capillaries. Probably happened when I was wearing hard PMMA non oxygen permeable lenses many, many years ago. I don't think you can see neovascularisation yourself, but your eye care professional will see it during the annual eye care examination.

You should discuss the floaters with the eye care specialist to reassure yourself that everything is OK/normal.

knotlob

Hey guys! I'm sorry i didn't answer as yet, I was so busy that i didn't have the time to enter here anymore.
Some news. I finally bought BIOFINITY. I could get them at a really good price (cost price) around 29U$S. When they are normally around 40USD or more here. So i took the offer.
Well, the fact is that I don't feel them so comfortable. They seems to last more time wet (they are new), but it is like they make me feel such nuisance in my eyes when I just put them on.
In fact, i had to open 3 of the 6 packs of the box, because there was one lens that i couldn't use, it made my eye ache so bad. And thats strange because it could be that I don't tolerate them well, but why it is just ONE that hurts bad? I'll try to change the box and try with other. Just in case of factory defects.
In fact, I looked up for some kind of defect on the lens but i didn't find anything comparing each other.

Technically, the only two differences between the lens i was using and Biofinitys are the diameter (I used 14.2 and biofinity are 14.0) thus I couldn't do anything about, and the substance they are made with.
But I'm using two lens that, even if they felt uncomfortable at the begining, after 2 days of use they stopped hurting. But... after about 6 hours i use them, i start to feel some kind of uncomfortable feeling, like a heat, in my eyes.

So I am a bit disappointed and confused...
As I said I'll try to change them and see what happen.

Thanks to all for your help!
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  #24  
Old 11-22-2010, 05:55 AM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Originally Posted by leeam View Post
Hey guys! I'm sorry i didn't answer as yet, I was so busy that i didn't have the time to enter here anymore.
Some news. I finally bought BIOFINITY. I could get them at a really good price (cost price) around 29U$S. When they are normally around 40USD or more here. So i took the offer.
Well, the fact is that I don't feel them so comfortable. They seems to last more time wet (they are new), but it is like they make me feel such nuisance in my eyes when I just put them on.
In fact, i had to open 3 of the 6 packs of the box, because there was one lens that i couldn't use, it made my eye ache so bad. And thats strange because it could be that I don't tolerate them well, but why it is just ONE that hurts bad? I'll try to change the box and try with other. Just in case of factory defects.
In fact, I looked up for some kind of defect on the lens but i didn't find anything comparing each other.

Technically, the only two differences between the lens i was using and Biofinitys are the diameter (I used 14.2 and biofinity are 14.0) thus I couldn't do anything about, and the substance they are made with.
But I'm using two lens that, even if they felt uncomfortable at the begining, after 2 days of use they stopped hurting. But... after about 6 hours i use them, i start to feel some kind of uncomfortable feeling, like a heat, in my eyes.

So I am a bit disappointed and confused...
As I said I'll try to change them and see what happen.

Thanks to all for your help!
Hi again

It is possible to have manufacturing defects in lenses. When I first tried them I was given a rebranded lens (which was actually a Biofinity) by the optician as a trial. They were not comfortable, particularly in my right eye, which has a little more astigmatism than the left. Also the prescription was not quite right and unbalanced - I normally have the same prescription in each eye. However, when I bought Biofinity directly from a Mail Order house, they were exceptionally comfortable and I couldn't feel them in my right eye (astigmatism) at all.

Is the discomfort you feel with one eye replicated when you put the contact lens from that eye into the other eye? If so, then that suggests a manufacturing fault (within or outside manufacturing tolerances).

Do you have any astigmatism? That can cause discomfort, even if it is only mild.

If you have discomfort after some time it could also be linked to the solutions. I would recommend you try a preservative free peroxide based system Clear Care/AOSept and see if this improves the situation.

I don't think the 0.2mm difference in contact lens diameter will make any difference to the 'feel' of the lenses.

knotlob
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  #25  
Old 11-22-2010, 09:51 AM
Jawa Jawa is offline
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Thanks both for your answers.

The thing is I've been using Biofinity for over a month, I work everyday 8+ hours with a/c and the end of day comfort for Biofinity sometimes has been better and sometimes worst than Proclear (the best I used for dry conditions).

I already ordered some Aquify Long Lasting drops to see if it helps a little on those days that Biofinity gets dryer and I'm using right now Opti Free Replenish and it seems to help too, because before with Renu Fresh the lenses were getting more uncomfortable. I recently saw and read about the new Renu BioTrue and it looks interesting, maybe I'll try it after running out of my current solution; which one do you think should work better with this lenses?
We haven't heard from you in a couple of months lens. How are you doing?
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:37 AM
leeam leeam is offline
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Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Hi again

It is possible to have manufacturing defects in lenses. When I first tried them I was given a rebranded lens (which was actually a Biofinity) by the optician as a trial. They were not comfortable, particularly in my right eye, which has a little more astigmatism than the left. Also the prescription was not quite right and unbalanced - I normally have the same prescription in each eye. However, when I bought Biofinity directly from a Mail Order house, they were exceptionally comfortable and I couldn't feel them in my right eye (astigmatism) at all.

Is the discomfort you feel with one eye replicated when you put the contact lens from that eye into the other eye? If so, then that suggests a manufacturing fault (within or outside manufacturing tolerances).

Do you have any astigmatism? That can cause discomfort, even if it is only mild.

If you have discomfort after some time it could also be linked to the solutions. I would recommend you try a preservative free peroxide based system Clear Care/AOSept and see if this improves the situation.

I don't think the 0.2mm difference in contact lens diameter will make any difference to the 'feel' of the lenses.

knotlob
Yes, when I put the "defective" one it hurts in both eyes. Thats what I thought about manufacturing troubles. But I actually have some doubts on if they may be or not biofinity lenses really.
Anyway the box was closed, the impression on he box is not cheap, on the labels of each package neither, it has lot number, a label with the importer info.. I know it can all be done by anyone, but again it don't seem so cheap to worth.
I have just contacted CooperVision to ask them if there is a way to know, maybe with the lot number and anything more.

I have a little of astigmatism in my left eye, though I tried to put one of the lenses I'm using on my right eye and it hurt so I'm using it on the eye with astigmatism and feel ok. :/

I don't want to wait a lot of time to test whats really happening because i want to contact now the doctor that sold them to me so he can change them.

What did you mean whit re-branded lens?

Would be there a way I can buy this lens DIRECTLY to coopervision USA? I say USA just because the Biomedics was for there and they were excellent. These ones don't say where are maid, they just give the addresses from USA and UK.

Thanks
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2010, 12:50 PM
Shade Maiden Shade Maiden is offline
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Originally Posted by leeam View Post
Would be there a way I can buy this lens DIRECTLY to coopervision USA? I say USA just because the Biomedics was for there and they were excellent. These ones don't say where are maid, they just give the addresses from USA and UK.

Thanks
I tried the Coopervision website, but I didn't see anything there that looked like an order page. The closest I found was something about rebates.

You could buy the from Lens.com, the sponsors of this site. Just click the red button at the top of the page.
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2010, 02:44 PM
Zenec Zenec is offline
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Thanks both for your answers.

The thing is I've been using Biofinity for over a month, I work everyday 8+ hours with a/c and the end of day comfort for Biofinity sometimes has been better and sometimes worst than Proclear (the best I used for dry conditions).

I already ordered some Aquify Long Lasting drops to see if it helps a little on those days that Biofinity gets dryer and I'm using right now Opti Free Replenish and it seems to help too, because before with Renu Fresh the lenses were getting more uncomfortable. I recently saw and read about the new Renu BioTrue and it looks interesting, maybe I'll try it after running out of my current solution; which one do you think should work better with this lenses?




I thought the same when I tried it
Oh my, I would avoid BioTrue - it results in really high corneal staining with many lenses. Sounds scary, but all that really means for you (and me) is that there's a much higher risk of lens not being comfortable at all just because of the solution.

Try out some preservative free solutions. Avoid biguanides as well. I had comfort issues when I used Biofinity with solutions containing biguanides (Renu, Amo, most of them really). Alcon ones are a bit better but they still have biguanides, a bit altered but anyway. I would suggest trying out hydrogen peroxide based solutions for overnight lens cleaning. Just check that they are preservative free and remember that you cannot put them in your eyes.
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2010, 03:37 PM
R2D2 R2D2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenec View Post
Oh my, I would avoid BioTrue - it results in really high corneal staining with many lenses. Sounds scary, but all that really means for you (and me) is that there's a much higher risk of lens not being comfortable at all just because of the solution.

Try out some preservative free solutions. Avoid biguanides as well. I had comfort issues when I used Biofinity with solutions containing biguanides (Renu, Amo, most of them really). Alcon ones are a bit better but they still have biguanides, a bit altered but anyway. I would suggest trying out hydrogen peroxide based solutions for overnight lens cleaning. Just check that they are preservative free and remember that you cannot put them in your eyes.
It sounds like you know what you're taking about, Zenec. How'd you get so smart?
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  #30  
Old 11-22-2010, 03:53 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Originally Posted by leeam View Post
Yes, when I put the "defective" one it hurts in both eyes. Thats what I thought about manufacturing troubles. But I actually have some doubts on if they may be or not biofinity lenses really.
Anyway the box was closed, the impression on he box is not cheap, on the labels of each package neither, it has lot number, a label with the importer info.. I know it can all be done by anyone, but again it don't seem so cheap to worth.
I have just contacted CooperVision to ask them if there is a way to know, maybe with the lot number and anything more.

I have a little of astigmatism in my left eye, though I tried to put one of the lenses I'm using on my right eye and it hurt so I'm using it on the eye with astigmatism and feel ok. :/

I don't want to wait a lot of time to test whats really happening because i want to contact now the doctor that sold them to me so he can change them.

What did you mean whit re-branded lens?

Would be there a way I can buy this lens DIRECTLY to coopervision USA? I say USA just because the Biomedics was for there and they were excellent. These ones don't say where are maid, they just give the addresses from USA and UK.

Thanks
OK, I don't think you can buy Biofinity directly from CooperVision. But if you buy from any of the well known Mail Order companies, you will be getting genuine Biofinity lenses, e.g. the forum's sponsor www.lens.com (I need the brownie points ).

If your lenses say Comfilcon A on the packet, then they will be Biofinity or the Biofinity lens with a different name. There are lots of rebranded Biofinity lenses on the market, the most common being SiH48. CooperVision allow rebranding of some of their lenses so that some Optician Chains or Eye Doctors can sell them at double the regular price to their unsuspecting clients.

Since your lens hurts your eye, no matter which eye you try, it is almost certainly a manufacturing defect. I hope the others in that lot are not similarly off specification.

Try the peroxide system to see if that improves your other problem.

knotlob
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  #31  
Old 11-22-2010, 03:54 PM
Zenec Zenec is offline
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It sounds like you know what you're taking about, Zenec. How'd you get so smart?
haha, well, I have been wearing contacts for quite a while already. Also, what might help - I am studying pharmacology so I am pretty good at sciences and researching the topics I am really interested in. If only I could write my essays on contact lenses!
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2010, 04:32 PM
Goldar Goldar is offline
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Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
OK, I don't think you can buy Biofinity directly from CooperVision. But if you buy from any of the well known Mail Order companies, you will be getting genuine Biofinity lenses, e.g. the forum's sponsor www.lens.com (I need the brownie points ).

knotlob
You've got 2,011 posts at the moment, Knotlob. (Just as the year 2010 is coming to a close.) You don't need the brownie points, but the plug is still appreciated, I'm sure.
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2010, 05:02 PM
leeam leeam is offline
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Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
OK, I don't think you can buy Biofinity directly from CooperVision. But if you buy from any of the well known Mail Order companies, you will be getting genuine Biofinity lenses, e.g. the forum's sponsor www lens.com (I need the brownie points ).

If your lenses say Comfilcon A on the packet, then they will be Biofinity or the Biofinity lens with a different name. There are lots of rebranded Biofinity lenses on the market, the most common being SiH48. CooperVision allow rebranding of some of their lenses so that some Optician Chains or Eye Doctors can sell them at double the regular price to their unsuspecting clients.

Since your lens hurts your eye, no matter which eye you try, it is almost certainly a manufacturing defect. I hope the others in that lot are not similarly off specification.

Try the peroxide system to see if that improves your other problem.

knotlob
next time i'll try lens.com if you suggest me them.. unless you get paid to say that haha the prices seem to be low but I don't know how much would be the shipping price to argentina

They say comfilcon A. I don't think they are "fake", it seems to be a real CooperVision product.

What is a peroxide system? is that a solution to save (disinfect) the lenses?
I just bought one better than the previous i used to buy (Natura Express, I don't think you even know about it). Better because it has Sodium Hyaluronate "that make the lens stay wet more time and it is better for the cornea". The brand is Natura Confort in this case.
If thats what you are talking about, why is better a liquid based on peroxide?
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2010, 05:15 PM
LeeRoberts LeeRoberts is offline
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Originally Posted by leeam View Post
next time i'll try lens.com if you suggest me them.. unless you get paid to say that haha the prices seem to be low but I don't know how much would be the shipping price to argentina

They say comfilcon A. I don't think they are "fake", it seems to be a real CooperVision product.

What is a peroxide system? is that a solution to save (disinfect) the lenses?
I just bought one better than the previous i used to buy (Natura Express, I don't think you even know about it). Better because it has Sodium Hyaluronate "that make the lens stay wet more time and it is better for the cornea". The brand is Natura Confort in this case.
If thats what you are talking about, why is better a liquid based on peroxide?
Hey, where can I get paid to suggest Lens.com?

I'm sure he'll correct me (gently) if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the "peroxide system" that Knotlob talking about is a thing made by "Clear Care." You put your contact lenses in a little basket and soak them in a peroxide solution which makes them bubble. Here's how All About Vision describes the process:

Hydrogen peroxide solution is for cleaning, disinfecting, rinsing and storing your contact lenses. With this product, you place your lenses in the provided basket and rinse them, then place the basket in its cup and fill the cup with solution to clean and disinfect your lenses.

Some lens holders for hydrogen peroxide systems have a built-in neutralizer (to convert the hydrogen peroxide to water, so it doesn't sting your eyes), but with others you need to add a neutralizing tablet.

After the disinfection and neutralizing step is completed, you can remove the lenses from the case and put them on.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2010, 05:18 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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Originally Posted by leeam View Post
next time i'll try lens.com if you suggest me them.. unless you get paid to say that haha the prices seem to be low but I don't know how much would be the shipping price to argentina

They say comfilcon A. I don't think they are "fake", it seems to be a real CooperVision product.

What is a peroxide system? is that a solution to save (disinfect) the lenses?
I just bought one better than the previous i used to buy (Natura Express, I don't think you even know about it). Better because it has Sodium Hyaluronate "that make the lens stay wet more time and it is better for the cornea". The brand is Natura Confort in this case.
If thats what you are talking about, why is better a liquid based on peroxide?
I don't know what shipping costs are to Argentina. I am in Germany and to be truthful, shipping costs (which are high) plus VAT European Value Added Tax/MWSt Mehrwertsteuer of circa 23% make buying contact lenses from the US currently unattractive. You need to do your own sums and watch out for the current exchange rate.

Hydrogen Peroxide is a 3% hydrogen peroxide disinfectant in a saline solution. The best one for people with sensitive eyes is one which doesn't contain any preservatives. The peroxide is strong and can kill most of the likely microbial infections, including Acanthamoeba keratitis found in contaminated tap or bathing waters. You soak your lenses in it overnight. The AOSept or Clear Care lens case contains a metal catalyst, which facilitates the destruction of the peroxide (to oxygen and water) over a period of six hours. Then you should be left with a sterile pair of contact lenses in a saline solution, which is compatible with your eyes.

Hyaluronate (comfort/wetting agent) is present in quite a lot of lens solutions - especially eye drops that I have looked at. But people's eyes vary and can be sensitive to many different chemicals. AOSept/Clear Care is safer in these circumstances.

EDIT: Well LeeRoberts beat me to the reply. Top man . (Hope I got the gender right).

knotlob
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  #36  
Old 11-23-2010, 11:39 AM
UNIT UNIT is offline
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Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
Hydrogen Peroxide is a 3% hydrogen peroxide disinfectant in a saline solution. The best one for people with sensitive eyes is one which doesn't contain any preservatives. The peroxide is strong and can kill most of the likely microbial infections, including Acanthamoeba keratitis found in contaminated tap or bathing waters. You soak your lenses in it overnight. The AOSept or Clear Care lens case contains a metal catalyst, which facilitates the destruction of the peroxide (to oxygen and water) over a period of six hours. Then you should be left with a sterile pair of contact lenses in a saline solution, which is compatible with your eyes.

knotlob
I've got a couple of questions about the Clear Care reaction. You said that the Clear Care system contains a metal catalyst that facilitates the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide to oxygen to water. Will that happen anyway without the catalyst?

Secondly you said that the final result of this process us "a sterile pair of contact lenses in a saline solution." Where did the salt come from?
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  #37  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:22 PM
Knotlob Knotlob is offline
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I've got a couple of questions about the Clear Care reaction. You said that the Clear Care system contains a metal catalyst that facilitates the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide to oxygen to water. Will that happen anyway without the catalyst?

Secondly you said that the final result of this process us "a sterile pair of contact lenses in a saline solution." Where did the salt come from?
The peroxide will very slowly breakdown by itself, but this process may take several weeks, not just 6 hours. So yes, the metal catalyst (or you can use a chemical - catalase tablet instead) is necessary to 'neutralise' the hydrogen peroxide before you can put the lenses in your eye.

The hydrogen peroxide solution that you buy has salt (NaCl) added to the solution to make it the same isotonic strength as the fluids in your eye. This makes it comfortable when you put the lens in your eye. Otherwise osmotic pressure effects between the different salt concentrations in your tears/eye and the lens solution would occur and cause discomfort/problems.

There are sometimes other minor additives like phosphate added to pH buffer or preserve the lens solution, but these are not strictly necessary - I didn't add these when I made up my own peroxide solution and never had any problems.

knotlob
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  #38  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:41 PM
Eyerobot Eyerobot is offline
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Originally Posted by Knotlob View Post
The peroxide will very slowly breakdown by itself, but this process may take several weeks, not just 6 hours. So yes, the metal catalyst (or you can use a chemical - catalase tablet instead) is necessary to 'neutralise' the hydrogen peroxide before you can put the lenses in your eye.

The hydrogen peroxide solution that you buy has salt (NaCl) added to the solution to make it the same isotonic strength as the fluids in your eye. This makes it comfortable when you put the lens in your eye. Otherwise osmotic pressure effects between the different salt concentrations in your tears/eye and the lens solution would occur and cause discomfort/problems.

There are sometimes other minor additives like phosphate added to pH buffer or preserve the lens solution, but these are not strictly necessary - I didn't add these when I made up my own peroxide solution and never had any problems.

knotlob
Good questions, UNIT, and good answers knotlob.
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  #39  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:42 PM
LeeRoberts LeeRoberts is offline
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Thanks both for your answers.

The thing is I've been using Biofinity for over a month, I work everyday 8+ hours with a/c and the end of day comfort for Biofinity sometimes has been better and sometimes worst than Proclear (the best I used for dry conditions).

I already ordered some Aquify Long Lasting drops to see if it helps a little on those days that Biofinity gets dryer and I'm using right now Opti Free Replenish and it seems to help too, because before with Renu Fresh the lenses were getting more uncomfortable. I recently saw and read about the new Renu BioTrue and it looks interesting, maybe I'll try it after running out of my current solution; which one do you think should work better with this lenses?
So have you found any useful answers in this thread? Did you stick with your trusty Biofinity lenses after all?
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  #40  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:26 PM
R2D2 R2D2 is offline
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haha, well, I have been wearing contacts for quite a while already. Also, what might help - I am studying pharmacology so I am pretty good at sciences and researching the topics I am really interested in. If only I could write my essays on contact lenses!
You sound like someone who would make an excellent member of Lens 101. If you haven't do so yet, look around and see if there are any pharmacological questions you can answer here.
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  #41  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:39 PM
Zenec Zenec is offline
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You sound like someone who would make an excellent member of Lens 101. If you haven't do so yet, look around and see if there are any pharmacological questions you can answer here.
Well, if you need any help understanding, for example, what does ED50 mean, let me know. Then again, most of the stuff I can explain can also be found on wikipedia
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  #42  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:46 PM
R2D2 R2D2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenec View Post
Well, if you need any help understanding, for example, what does ED50 mean, let me know. Then again, most of the stuff I can explain can also be found on wikipedia
Okay, I'll bite. What does ED50 mean?

It's not a motorcycle, is it? "The new Kawasaki ED50. It doesn't even need a kickstand. Ride one today."
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  #43  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:24 PM
Zenec Zenec is offline
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Nah, everyone with a degree in pharmacology knows it's a .. chair! Loved by pharmacologists, btw As a matter of fact, it's sooo good, that they even don't sell it to "ordinary people".

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  #44  
Old 12-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Eyeofthetiger Eyeofthetiger is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenec View Post
Nah, everyone with a degree in pharmacology knows it's a .. chair! Loved by pharmacologists, btw As a matter of fact, it's sooo good, that they even don't sell it to "ordinary people".

I'm with Artoo. ED50 totally sounds like a motorcycle.

So this ED50 chair is not available in stores, huh? It must cost about a thousand dollars.

Keep those posts coming, Zenec.
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  #45  
Old 12-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Zenec Zenec is offline
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Originally Posted by Eyeofthetiger View Post
I'm with Artoo. ED50 totally sounds like a motorcycle.

So this ED50 chair is not available in stores, huh? It must cost about a thousand dollars.

Keep those posts coming, Zenec.
ED50 sounds like a motorcycle only for people who have never sat on a real ED50 chair!
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  #46  
Old 12-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Ynot Ynot is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenec View Post
ED50 sounds like a motorcycle only for people who have never sat on a real ED50 chair!
I suppose that's true.

Well, maybe now you can relax in your fancy chair and answer some more questions on this forum. What do you say?
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  #47  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:46 PM
LeeRoberts LeeRoberts is offline
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Default What a Bargain

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Originally Posted by Eyeofthetiger View Post
I'm with Artoo. ED50 totally sounds like a motorcycle.

So this ED50 chair is not available in stores, huh? It must cost about a thousand dollars.

Keep those posts coming, Zenec.
I tried to find a price for you, but I couldn't find anything in American dollars, just a few sites that advertised the price as being a little over a hundred sixty-seven thousand "N."
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  #48  
Old 01-07-2011, 04:48 PM
Delta88 Delta88 is offline
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I tried to find a price for you, but I couldn't find anything in American dollars, just a few sites that advertised the price as being a little over a hundred sixty-seven thousand "N."
Okay, can we stop talking about motorcycles and get back to contact lenses? You know how we love to talk about contact lenses and sunglasses around here.

What about glasses? Doesn't anyone read the eyeglasses section of Lens 101. Glasses have lenses too, you know.
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