CONFIRMED 02 Optix = Air Optix Aqua

troyohchatter · #1 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 08:41 AM

I just started wearing contacts and was provided with a pair of O2 Optix. I suspected that with the various branding changes and such that Air Optix Aqua and O2 Optix were the same and went off to find concrete proof. Then I found it, the smoking gun, a few of them actually:

1. The most damning evidence is the package insert.

http://procare.cibavision.com/pdf/o2o_pi.pdf

Notice everything, EVERYTHING is the same for O2 optix and Air Optix to include the wearing schedule of 6 days straight or 4 weeks with daily cleaning and such. IN fact, if you go to the us cibavision website, click on Air Optix, then click on their product sheet, it goes to the VERY SAME URL AS ABOVE, the O2 Optix PDF.

2. If you click on the "O2 Optix" website, it goes to the Air Optix website.

3. O2 Optix are not specified anywhere "current" as a 2 week change, only that they can be worn 6 days without removal.

4. The small packet that holds the lens does not specify 02 or Air, just that it's a "Cibavison Spherical.

So, after seeing this and other items, I pieced together what happened. So here we go:

FDA approves Silicon Hydragel for a 2 week wear period. O2 Optix hit the market. Then the FDA approves Silicon Hydragel for a one month wearing period. Now what this does is lowers the manufacturers revenue by 50% as the lenses now last twice as long. What to do, what to do?

Easy? They debut "Air Optix" in the US market as a HUGE IMPROVEMENT and jack up the price. Then they make no effort to publicize that O2 Optix, the very same lens, is also a 4 week lens and, moreover, is the very exact same lense. Just like that, not only do they negate the cost of the FDA extension of the wearing schedule, they add another "product line" for the cost of a differently printed box. BRILLIANT!!!

I hesitate to post this on the Air Optix Aqua section. They might hang me. No one likes to throw money away.

Hypnoteyes · #2 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

I just started wearing contacts and was provided with a pair of O2 Optix. I suspected that with the various branding changes and such that Air Optix Aqua and O2 Optix were the same and went off to find concrete proof. Then I found it, the smoking gun, a few of them actually:

1. The most damning evidence is the package insert.

http://procare.cibavision.com/pdf/o2o_pi.pdf

Notice everything, EVERYTHING is the same for O2 optix and Air Optix to include the wearing schedule of 6 days straight or 4 weeks with daily cleaning and such. IN fact, if you go to the us cibavision website, click on Air Optix, then click on their product sheet, it goes to the VERY SAME URL AS ABOVE, the O2 Optix PDF.

2. If you click on the "O2 Optix" website, it goes to the Air Optix website.

3. O2 Optix are not specified anywhere "current" as a 2 week change, only that they can be worn 6 days without removal.

4. The small packet that holds the lens does not specify 02 or Air, just that it's a "Cibavison Spherical.

So, after seeing this and other items, I pieced together what happened. So here we go:

FDA approves Silicon Hydragel for a 2 week wear period. O2 Optix hit the market. Then the FDA approves Silicon Hydragel for a one month wearing period. Now what this does is lowers the manufacturers revenue by 50% as the lenses now last twice as long. What to do, what to do?

Easy? They debut "Air Optix" in the US market as a HUGE IMPROVEMENT and jack up the price. Then they make no effort to publicize that O2 Optix, the very same lens, is also a 4 week lens and, moreover, is the very exact same lense. Just like that, not only do they negate the cost of the FDA extension of the wearing schedule, they add another "product line" for the cost of a differently printed box. BRILLIANT!!!

I hesitate to post this on the Air Optix Aqua section. They might hang me. No one likes to throw money away.

Hi troyohchatter,

Welcome to Lens 101. I spotted your post and decided to check into it myself. I haven't done extensive research, but let me tell you what I've found so far.

According to AirOptix.com: "Air Optix® Aqua contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2Optix® contact lenses.
With the Aqua Moisture System, Air Optix® Aqua lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them."

It doesn't sound like they're trying to play up Air Optix Aqua as being something totally different from O2 Optix. It's an upgrade. Air Optix.com says that the Aqua Moisture System--which makes the Air Optix Aqua an improvement over O2 Optix--"lubricates, maintains and sustains" the lenses better. Here's a link for you to check out.

http://www.airoptix.com/ecp/aqua/AQUA_Moisture.shtml

What you're saying sounds like "'Confirmed: Cheeseburger=Hamburger.' Don't buy cheeseburgers. I looked at the ingredients and they have the same ground beef patty, the same bread-like round bun, and the same ketchup, mustard, onion and pickle as a hamburger, yet they cost 10% more. What a ripoff!"

Do you see what I'm saying? No one's trying to tell you that a cheeseburger is a hundred times better than a hamburger, but it is different and if you like the difference that slice of cheese-like substance makes, you're willing to pay the difference. If you don't, have a hamburger and keep the change.

If you try Air Optix and you don't think they're all that much different than O2 Optix, then by all means, stick to the O2 Optix.

Do we all feel better now?

Englishteacher1 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypnoteyes

Hi troyohchatter,

Welcome to Lens 101. I spotted your post and decided to check into it myself. I haven't done extensive research, but let me tell you what I've found so far.

According to AirOptix.com: "Air Optix® Aqua contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2Optix® contact lenses.
With the Aqua Moisture System, Air Optix® Aqua lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them."

It doesn't sound like they're trying to play up Air Optix Aqua as being something totally different from O2 Optix. It's an upgrade. Air Optix.com says that the Aqua Moisture System--which makes the Air Optix Aqua an improvement over O2 Optix--"lubricates, maintains and sustains" the lenses better. Here's a link for you to check out.

http://www.airoptix.com/ecp/aqua/AQUA_Moisture.shtml

What you're saying sounds like "'Confirmed: Cheeseburger=Hamburger.' Don't buy cheeseburgers. I looked at the ingredients and they have the same ground beef patty, the same bread-like round bun, and the same ketchup, mustard, onion and pickle as a hamburger, yet they cost 10% more. What a ripoff!"

Do you see what I'm saying? No one's trying to tell you that a cheeseburger is a hundred times better than a hamburger, but it is different and if you like the difference that slice of cheese-like substance makes, you're willing to pay the difference. If you don't, have a hamburger and keep the change.

If you try Air Optix and you don't think they're all that much different than O2 Optix, then by all means, stick to the O2 Optix.

Do we all feel better now?

I know I feel better.

That's a good hamburger/cheeseburger analogy Hypnoteyes. I wonder how troyohchatter will respond?

troyohchatter · #4 (**permalink**) 12-08-2009, 01:55 PM

In the desire to use fast food to one up someone you failed to acknowledge the point of the post which is that O2 Optix on this board and at every retail outlet I can find is being marketed as a 1-2 week lens and not the one month lens at half the cost that it actually appears to be. As far as Air Optix Aqua having an additional additive in the case, there is no specific text anywhere that states that when they added that to the newly named Air Optix they didn't start putting it in the O2 Optix as well.

So it's 100% confirmed that the lenses themselves are the same, as stated in the package insert I linked to. That was my only point.

I would also bet real money that there is no additional additive in the Air Optix and that the only thing the Air Optix do better than the O2 Optix is lightening your wallet.

FirstDown · #5 (**permalink**) 12-08-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

In the desire to use fast food to one up someone you failed to acknowledge the point of the post which is that O2 Optix on this board and at every retail outlet I can find is being marketed as a 1-2 week lens and not the one month lens at half the cost that it actually appears to be. As far as Air Optix Aqua having an additional additive in the case, there is no specific text anywhere that states that when they added that to the newly named Air Optix they didn't start putting it in the O2 Optix as well.

So it's 100% confirmed that the lenses themselves are the same, as stated in the package insert I linked to. That was my only point.

I would also bet real money that there is no additional additive in the Air Optix and that the only thing the Air Optix do better than the O2 Optix is lightening your wallet.

Hi troyohchatter,

I've looked over this thread with great interest. Let me see if I've got this straight. You claim that even though Air Optix Aqua and O2 Optix contact lenses are being marketed as two different lenses, with the Air Optix having some kind of "additive" advantage over the other lens--that they are in fact the same lens? Have I got that correct?

I did a little searching of my own on lens.com and discovered that Air Optix Aqua are 76% lotrafilcon B, and so, apparently are the O2 Optix. So in that respect, they are the same.

It looks though like that "Aqua Moisture System" that Hypnoteyes mentioned is what makes the difference. So they're not 100% the same, just like that hamburger/cheeseburger analogy that seems to be so popular. If you compare a hamburger and a cheeseburger side-by-side, they're very much the same. One could even say identical--except for the cheese. Based on this, you cannot make the claim that a hamburger is the same thing as a cheeseburger and that one should expect to pay the same price for a cheeseburger as they do for a hamburger. Many people say a cheeseburger tastes better than a hamburger and will quite readily pay a little extra for one. I'd be one of those people. I'll take a cheeseburger over a hamburger every time.

So as long as Air Optix Aqua has that "Aqua Moisture System" and last a month rather than two weeks, it's different than the O2 Optix. So if CIBA Vision wants to sell these as two different lenses at different prices, I don't see why they can't. Selling Air Optix Aqua at twice the price seems a bit much at first, but they do last longer, apparently. So after a month, you will have worn about thirty bucks' worth for either one if you bought them at lens.com.

If you're willing to "bet real money that there is no additional additive in the Air Optix," then you are, of course, ready to prove it, aren't you?

Thank you for your time, troyohchatter. I thank you also for providing material a very interesting thread.

troyohchatter · #6 (**permalink**) 12-08-2009, 03:38 PM

Again, everyone here is making assumptions. here's the quote right from the CIBA website in regards to the difference.

-----------
AIR OPTIX® AQUA contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2OPTIX® contact lenses.

With the AQUA Moisture System, AIR OPTIX® AQUA lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them.
----------

Now answer the following after reading the above:

1. IS there ANYTHING that SPECIFICALLY states what the upgrade to the O2 Optix is?

2. When it states that the "Aqua Moisture System" exists, does it anywhere in the writeup say that it is specific to Aqua Optix lenses only, that this was an all new ingredient that they came up with? Does it state ANYWHERE that it's a proprietory and unique solution that comes only with the more expensive lenses? Or are you making the assumption the marketer wants you to make?

3. If it is an proprietary ingredient that is included ONLY in the Aqua's, as in not in the O2's, wouldn't they specify that?

What I am telling you, as a marketing professional of many MANY years, is that there is no difference. The insert is the same, the insert states the lenses are the same, the external packaging of the lenses is the same, and there is nothing but "creative marketing' to separate the two. The only time that O2 Optix were EVER called 2 week lenses was when the FDA allowed Silicon Hydragel's to be only used for 2 weeks.

Just read the information and come up with some "black and white" confirmation that the lenses or the solution they are soaked in is different. Don't tell me, SHOW ME.

Hypnoteyes · #7 (**permalink**) 12-21-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

Again, everyone here is making assumptions. here's the quote right from the CIBA website in regards to the difference.

-----------
AIR OPTIX® AQUA contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2OPTIX® contact lenses.

With the AQUA Moisture System, AIR OPTIX® AQUA lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them.
----------

Now answer the following after reading the above:

1. IS there ANYTHING that SPECIFICALLY states what the upgrade to the O2 Optix is?

2. When it states that the "Aqua Moisture System" exists, does it anywhere in the writeup say that it is specific to Aqua Optix lenses only, that this was an all new ingredient that they came up with? Does it state ANYWHERE that it's a proprietory and unique solution that comes only with the more expensive lenses? Or are you making the assumption the marketer wants you to make?

3. If it is an proprietary ingredient that is included ONLY in the Aqua's, as in not in the O2's, wouldn't they specify that?

What I am telling you, as a marketing professional of many MANY years, is that there is no difference. The insert is the same, the insert states the lenses are the same, the external packaging of the lenses is the same, and there is nothing but "creative marketing' to separate the two. The only time that O2 Optix were EVER called 2 week lenses was when the FDA allowed Silicon Hydragel's to be only used for 2 weeks.

Just read the information and come up with some "black and white" confirmation that the lenses or the solution they are soaked in is different. Don't tell me, SHOW ME.

Hi troyohchatter,

Have you tried www.airoptix.com? There are lots of words like "unique" and "patented" to describe this Aqua Moisture System. The site also has a lot of neat charts and graphs that show what sets these contacts apart.

The one picture shows the ingredients, including a surface with a "permanent plasma treatment."

It also shows the wettability of Air Optix compared to some similar brands as well as how they resist lipid deposition.

I'm not sure if this is the kind of information you're looking for, but I think it shows that Air Optix are not the same old same old and that they have some unique properties of wettability and resistance to deposits.

As for what specifically the "magic ingredient" is, it may be a trade secret, or or maybe CIBA Vision wants to keep their information simple and accessible instead of saying "We've added a patented moisturizing layer of tri-nitrocloroacetyl-hydrosulfaluminide."

troyohchatter · #8 (**permalink**) 12-23-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypnoteyes

Hi troyohchatter,

Have you tried www.airoptix.com? There are lots of words like "unique" and "patented" to describe this Aqua Moisture System. The site also has a lot of neat charts and graphs that show what sets these contacts apart.

The one picture shows the ingredients, including a surface with a "permanent plasma treatment."

It also shows the wettability of Air Optix compared to some similar brands as well as how they resist lipid deposition.

I'm not sure if this is the kind of information you're looking for, but I think it shows that Air Optix are not the same old same old and that they have some unique properties of wettability and resistance to deposits.

As for what specifically the "magic ingredient" is, it may be a trade secret, or or maybe CIBA Vision wants to keep their information simple and accessible instead of saying "We've added a patented moisturizing layer of tri-nitrocloroacetyl-hydrosulfaluminide."

Actually, CIBAVISION's own product insert states that O2 Optix and AirOptix are the same exact lens packed in the very same solution. There is no difference. NONE. Read the product insert, not the marketing mumbo jumbo written to extract money from people by buying a more expensive "name." The images you have included are right off of the product sheet that I linked to and apply to O2 Optix as well.

OrganicPete · #9 (**permalink**) 12-23-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

Actually, CIBAVISION's own product insert states that O2 Optix and AirOptix are the same exact lens packed in the very same solution. There is no difference. NONE. Read the product insert, not the marketing mumbo jumbo written to extract money from people by buying a more expensive "name." The images you have included are right off of the product sheet that I linked to and apply to O2 Optix as well.

You keep saying "Read the insert! Read the insert!" How am I supposed to read the package insert if I don't wear either one of these contacts? I just wandered by and saw this thread and thought I'd check it out. I would imagine there are a lot of people who come to Lens 101 and read this thread even if they don't use either one of these products. How are they supposed to read the inserts? Why not help us out and just give us this information that's apparently so powerfully conclusive?

Others have presented their evidence that these two brands of contacts are different, and all you've said so far is "They're the same. Read the inserts" without offering any other proof.

Since I don't have the package inserts, I must rely on what I find on the Internet (i.e. "marketing mumbo jumbo"). Here's what I found at airoptix.com:
What is the difference between O2OPTIX® contact lenses and AIR OPTIX® AQUA contact lenses?

AIR OPTIX® AQUA contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2OPTIX® contact lenses.

With the AQUA Moisture System, AIR OPTIX® AQUA lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them.

This website even has a link that says "If you like O2 Optix, you'll love Air Optix Aqua!"

Looking over this thread it seems that you are making the claim that O2 Optix and Air Optix Aqua are identical lenses, while others are saying the two are similar, but not identical. So what's the big deal? They're made out of the same material, but one of them has a special coating that evidently sets them apart as an "upgrade." OK fine. Then they're not identical. So stop saying "There is no difference. NONE" There clearly is a difference. Admittedly, it's a small difference, but a difference nonetheless.

*Sigh*

Are we done?

troyohchatter · #10 (**permalink**) 12-28-2009, 05:46 PM

The package insert I speak of is here: http://procare.cibavision.com/pdf/o2o_pi.pdf

Note the top, the gray area that has all of the lenses that the sheet applies to. Ok, then you read further and it says the lens specs, to include what it's made out of, soaked in, how long you can wear them, etc; and at no time does it draw a line between O2 Optix and Air Optix.

From the PDF that I linked to:

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
CIBA VISION® O2OPTIX®, AIR OPTIX™ AQUA, AIR OPTIX™ for
ASTIGMATISM1 and AIR OPTIX™ AQUA MULTIFOCAL (lotrafilcon B) soft
contact lenses are made from a lens material that is approximately 33%
water and 67% lotrafilcon B, a fluoro-silicone containing hydrogel which is
surface treated.

That enough proof??? Read the rest of the sheet if it's not.

In addition, I wanted to ensure I was correct prior to posting yet another reply so this evening I spoke to my Eye Doc. He said I was 100% correct in that the lenses are IDENTICAL. The franchise that he works for requires him to keep the Air Optix in his case with the O2 Optix, but he told me he will not sell the Air Optix, and for the last two years, hasn't sold any. The case was full of Air Optix and yes, they were the same boxes that the Cibavision rep put there two years ago.

KSCbase · #11 (**permalink**) 12-29-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

The package insert I speak of is here: http://procare.cibavision.com/pdf/o2o_pi.pdf

Note the top, the gray area that has all of the lenses that the sheet applies to. Ok, then you read further and it says the lens specs, to include what it's made out of, soaked in, how long you can wear them, etc; and at no time does it draw a line between O2 Optix and Air Optix.

From the PDF that I linked to:

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
CIBA VISION® O2OPTIX®, AIR OPTIX™ AQUA, AIR OPTIX™ for
ASTIGMATISM1 and AIR OPTIX™ AQUA MULTIFOCAL (lotrafilcon B) soft
contact lenses are made from a lens material that is approximately 33%
water and 67% lotrafilcon B, a fluoro-silicone containing hydrogel which is
surface treated.

That enough proof??? Read the rest of the sheet if it's not.

In addition, I wanted to ensure I was correct prior to posting yet another reply so this evening I spoke to my Eye Doc. He said I was 100% correct in that the lenses are IDENTICAL. The franchise that he works for requires him to keep the Air Optix in his case with the O2 Optix, but he told me he will not sell the Air Optix, and for the last two years, hasn't sold any. The case was full of Air Optix and yes, they were the same boxes that the Cibavision rep put there two years ago.

Wow. This is an interesting post, isn't it?

What about that Aqua Moisture thing? Doesn't that set them apart, even if the lenses are made of the same stuff?

I went to the CIBA vision page and sent a request for information. Let's see what they say. You can send them a note also if you'd like:

http://www.us.cibavision.com/contact_us.shtml

troyohchatter · #12 (**permalink**) 12-29-2009, 11:13 AM

Yes, the Aqua moisture thing does exist, and it very well may be something that debuted when the Air Optix hit the market, but today, currently, the O2's and Air's are identical, the only difference being the box they come in. I confirmed this with my eye doc last night.

Both are marketed differently, O2's say that they can be worn 6 days straight and Air's are marketed to be worn for a month. The reality is, according to CIBAvision's own documentation, both can be worn for six days straight OR a month with daily cleaning. And the PDF indicates they are the same exact lens.

One more thing. This all started because the FDA extended the recommended wear for Silicon Hydragel lenses from 2 weeks to a month, effectively cutting the market for these lenses by 50%. My eye doc did indicate that there have been rumblings of legal action by consumer groups in relation to the general marketing of contact lenses and this issue specifically, but he hasn't heard anything definite.

KSCbase · #13 (**permalink**) 01-19-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchaettr

Yes, the Aqua moisture thing does exist, and it very well may be something that debuted when the Air Optix hit the market, but today, currently, the O2's and Air's are identical, the only difference being the box they come in. I confirmed this with my eye doc last night.

Both are marketed differently, O2's say that they can be worn 6 days straight and Air's are marketed to be worn for a month. The reality is, according to CIBAvision's own documentation, both can be worn for six days straight OR a month with daily cleaning. And the PDF indicates they are the same exact lens.

One more thing. This all started because the FDA extended the recommended wear for Silicon Hydragel lenses from 2 weeks to a month, effectively cutting the market for these lenses by 50%. My eye doc did indicate that there have been rumblings of legal action by consumer groups in relation to the general marketing of contact lenses and this issue specifically, but he hasn't heard anything definite.

Thanks for that info troyohchatter. It will be interesting to see how this works out. Frankly I'm surprised that CIBAvision would be so bold as to sell lenses that--as we've seen--can be proven to be identical and sell them as two different types of lenses. So many of these types of rumors turn out to be false.

OrganicPete · #14 (**permalink**) 01-22-2010, 03:05 PM

Wow. This is a great post. People disagreeing without flaming. I'm not sure what to think. I tend to trust the word of professionals, and troyohchatter's doctor says that these two contacts are the same, yet the evidence available to the general public on the Internet seems to indicate something else.

For all you Lens 101 groupies out there that have read to this point and are still scratching their heads, I would recommend you ask your own doctor and follow their advice. If your doctor says that they're the same, go for the Air Optix because they last longer. If your doctor says that they're different, wear the ones that he or she recommends.

troyohchatter · #15 (**permalink**) 01-25-2010, 01:46 PM

Actually, I am getting increasingly frustrated with the concept that CIBAVISION calls O2 Optix a 2 week lens. I have linked to THEIR PDF package insert three times in this thread. The insert states that both the Air Optix and O2 Optix are the same material, soaked in the same solution, and can be worn for the same amount of time. That is the manufacturer. I have explained why the two are marketed differently (money, FDA extending SilHydro lenses from two weeks to one month, etc). I am not asking anyone to believe me, but retrace the thread and READ what CIBAVISION says about their own lenses. READ. READ.. READ. Better yet, take the FLYER I linked to, print it out, and take it to your eye doctor.

Stylinbabe · #16 (**permalink**) 01-25-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

Actually, I am getting increasingly frustrated with the concept that CIBAVISION calls O2 Optix a 2 week lens. I have linked to THEIR PDF package insert three times in this thread. The insert states that both the Air Optix and O2 Optix are the same material, soaked in the same solution, and can be worn for the same amount of time. That is the manufacturer. I have explained why the two are marketed differently (money, FDA extending SilHydro lenses from two weeks to one month, etc). I am not asking anyone to believe me, but retrace the thread and READ what CIBAVISION says about their own lenses. READ. READ.. READ. Better yet, take the FLYER I linked to, print it out, and take it to your eye doctor.

Hey Troy. I tried looking at the flyer you linked to, but it's a PDF file and I can't open it. I bet there are others out there who are having the same problem. Do you have this information on a different format?

Knotlob · #17 (**permalink**) 01-25-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylinbabe

Hey Troy. I tried looking at the flyer you linked to, but it's a PDF file and I can't open it. I bet there are others out there who are having the same problem. Do you have this information on a different format?

You can normally download a free Adobe Acrobat Portable Document Format (pdf) file reader free. Install that and you should be able to read the .pdf file without any problems.

Most websites that have documents in pdf format also have a link to the Adobe website where you can download the reader.

http://get.adobe.com/reader/

knotlob

lurker2010 · #18 (**permalink**) 01-25-2010, 04:51 PM

The package insert proves nothing. The marketing materials suggests the Air Optix Aqua has a new coating. The package insert just mentions coating. That doesn't mean the coating is the same. The wording allows the same insert to be used, even if the coating is different.

That said I'd be surprised if Ciba makes two lenses, identical except for coating.

The FDA website http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf7/K073459.pdf suggests the coating in the Air Optix Aqua is the same coating that was approved in March 2004.

I suspect the lenses are the same, but not for the reasons suggested by the OP.

I'm not sure how this is bad. Ciba is giving a quantity discount to those customers who plan to replace their lenses every 2 weeks.

troyohchatter · #19 (**permalink**) 01-26-2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurker2010

The package insert proves nothing. The marketing materials suggests the Air Optix Aqua has a new coating. The package insert just mentions coating. That doesn't mean the coating is the same. The wording allows the same insert to be used, even if the coating is different.

That said I'd be surprised if Ciba makes two lenses, identical except for coating.

The FDA website http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf7/K073459.pdf suggests the coating in the Air Optix Aqua is the same coating that was approved in March 2004.

I suspect the lenses are the same, but not for the reasons suggested by the OP.

I'm not sure how this is bad. Ciba is giving a quantity discount to those customers who plan to replace their lenses every 2 weeks.

Yeah, kind of like Ford selling you a car for less than half the going price, for those that like to trade them in more often. Forgive me if I don't buy that argument. Bottom line is the insert states that the O2 Optix is a four week lens and every outlet selling it continues to call it a two week. If you don't think it's about money, I have some swampland to sell you in Florida. I'll sell it to you cheaper if you promise not to use it after one year.

lurker2010 · #20 (**permalink**) 01-26-2010, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

Yeah, kind of like Ford selling you a car for less than half the going price, for those that like to trade them in more often. Forgive me if I don't buy that argument. Bottom line is the insert states that the O2 Optix is a four week lens and every outlet selling it continues to call it a two week. If you don't think it's about money, I have some swampland to sell you in Florida. I'll sell it to you cheaper if you promise not to use it after one year.

You claim 02 Optix and Air Optix Aqua is the same lens. The promotional material says the Air Optix has a new coating. The package insert doesn't say the coating is the same. You suspect the lenses are the same. I suspect you're correct. However nothing you posted supports that. The FDA filing I linked to gives stronger evidence.

The package insert says the lenses can be worn for up to 4 weeks but to check with your practitioner. It sounds like you want to use the 02 Optix lens for 4 weeks. Check with your practitioner. A different method of cleaning might be suggested for a lens you're going to use for a month.

You shouldn't be complaining. You probably found a case where at least some customers can safely save money by using their lenses for longer then indicated by the price point of the lenses. You might want to "stock up" before Ciba decides to discontinue the 02 Optix lens.

I'll give you the companies side, although you probably don't agree. A lot of the cost of contact lenses goes to research, development, clinical trials getting FDA approval, educating practitioners etc. The cost to mfg a small piece of plastic is small part of the total cost. contact lens companes want a certain amount of money from us each year to pay for the fixed costs. Take an extreme case. Assume a daily lens could be worn for a year. Could a company stay in business if we spend less then $10 /year?

There are probably dozens of threads where posters ask if they can wear their lenses longer then suggested by he mfg. The common answer seems to be only if you don't care about your eyes. The truth is at least a few lenses can be worn longer.

troyohchatter · #21 (**permalink**) 01-26-2010, 01:03 PM

You are falling for a piece of "slight of hand" marketing speak. Here's exactly what the marketing material says, and it's the only place where CIBAVISION states as a difference between O2 Optix and Air Optix:

"AIR OPTIX® AQUA contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2OPTIX® contact lenses.

With the AQUA Moisture System, AIR OPTIX® AQUA lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them."

Read that outloud. Does it ever tell you that the "AQUA moisture system is unique to the Air Optix? Nope. I agree, it sure makes you THINK they are improved, but it never says that. It's brilliant marketing, and I love that kind of thing. However, understand that if the Air's had a coating that was unique and exclusive to the more expensive lens, that would be spelled out in spades. Furthermore, in every other piece of instructions or documentation, Air Optix and O2 Optix are used interchangeably or are connected with an "and" or an "or." They are the exact same lens, period.

Bottom line is that there is no evidence anywhere to indicate that these lenses are different in any way. Quite the opposite. Right? If there is any statement that indicates the Air Optix Aqua are different from the O2's, post it in this thread. I don't want to steer anyone wrong.

Oh, and part about my eye doc confirming my suspicions? That was no joke. I invite anyone to print out the package insert and take it to your eye doc.

John316 · #22 (**permalink**) 01-27-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

You are falling for a piece of "slight of hand" marketing speak. Here's exactly what the marketing material says, and it's the only place where CIBAVISION states as a difference between O2 Optix and Air Optix:

"AIR OPTIX® AQUA contact lenses were introduced in 2008 as an upgrade to O2OPTIX® contact lenses.

With the AQUA Moisture System, AIR OPTIX® AQUA lenses provide moisture for comfort on contact, all day, every day. They’re so comfortable that from the moment you put them in you may hardly notice them."

Read that out loud. Does it ever tell you that the "AQUA moisture system is unique to the Air Optix?"

So you're saying that this Aqua Moisture System is not unique to Air Optix? If you are, then you should be able to tell the masses at Lens 101 which contact lenses also have this system, right? Are you able to do that?

troyohchatter · #23 (**permalink**) 01-27-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John316

So you're saying that this Aqua Moisture System is not unique to Air Optix? If you are, then you should be able to tell the masses at Lens 101 which contact lenses also have this system, right? Are you able to do that?

The best I can tell you is talk to your doc, review ALL the documentation linked within this article, and use your own judgment. According to the package insert, the coating is the same on O2 Optix and Aqua's. Again, please read it for yourself and make your own determination.

FirstDown · #24 (**permalink**) 01-29-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyohchatter

The best I can tell you is talk to your doc, review ALL the documentation linked within this article, and use your own judgment. According to the package insert, the coating is the same on O2 Optix and Aqua's. Again, please read it for yourself and make your own determination.

Hi everybody. Me again.

Very interesting thread here.

In my quest to "make my own determination" I checked to see if there was any evidence on line that O2 Optix contains this "Aqua Moisture system," but I didn't find any. I don't wear O2 Optix or Air Optix Aqua, so the package insert is not available to me.

It's interesting to note that some searches came up with the phrase "Buy Air Optix Aqua (previously O2 Optix)" and "Air Optix Aqua have replaced O2 Optix." How can you replace something with the same thing? If I want to replace a tire on my car, I'm not going to take the tire off and put the same one back on. If the tire had been replaced, then it's a different tire, right?

All I'm saying is what others have been saying. My determination is that Air Optix Aqua contact lenses are very similar, but not identical, to O2 Optix contact lenses. "Identical" does not mean "very similar." That would be like saying an oval is identical to a circle or that a motorcycle is identical to a bicycle.

troyohchatter · #25 (**permalink**) 01-31-2010, 09:27 AM

Even if I allow for the coating to be different (doubtful IMHO), you cannot deny that according to CIBAvision, O2 Optix is a 1month lens, not a 2 week. It's right in the insert. Yet it is marketed and referred to as a two week lens. You do agree with this, don't you?